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Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by tzs on Saturday December 23, 2023 @04:19PM (#38748341)
A couple weeks or so ago after some UN official was in the news for resigning in protest over what was happening in Gaza and called it a genocide, NPR interviewed someone who has actually prosecuted genocide cases and asked him if the UN official was right.

According to the prosecutor he didn't think a case could be made. The key is that "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such" part.

To prove that you need statements from officials that show they intended such destruction, and those need to be officials that also had the means to carry out or cause to be carried out that destruction. Prime ministers and generals, for example.

If someone is going after legitimate military targets but a lot of members of some national, ethnical, racial or religious group is getting killed as collateral damage that is not enough to support a genocide charge. You need to statement of intent.

He added that there is a genocide case that can be made in the region--against Hamas. They have stated their intent to wipe out a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, and thousands of their attacks on Israel over the last 20+ years have been directed at purely civilian targets.

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by Qem on Saturday December 23, 2023 @04:56PM (#38748653)
> According to the prosecutor he didn't think a case could be made. The key is that "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such" part.

Moreno Ocampo, the former ICC prosecutor interviewed, actually said the opposite you're claiming. See https://www.aljazeera.com/program/upfront/2023/12/1/former-i...

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by tzs on Saturday December 23, 2023 @06:02PM (#38749183)
That's a different prosecutor, Luis Moreno Ocampo, who was an ICC prosecutor. NPR talked to [1] David M. Crane, who is a founding chief prosecutor on the U.N. Special Court for Sierra Leone.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2023/11/21/1214341050/prosecutor-weighs-...

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by kelnos on Saturday December 23, 2023 @07:13PM (#38749632)
So in other words, even experts on this topic disagree. So I don't think one prosecutor saying "no, this isn't genocide" is definitive -- just like another saying "yes, this is genocide" isn't either.

Ultimately we may never know if Netanyahu has sat behind closed doors and has said things about his intentions in Palestine that would meet the UN definition of genocide. So we can only guess based on what we do know and have seen.

FWIW, to me, this feels pretty genocide-y. The funny thing about the bit you paraphrased from Crane:

> and those need to be officials that also had the means to carry out or cause to be carried out that destruction

... is that by this definition, I don't think we can classify Hamas as genocidal, as they don't seem to have the war capability to actually "carry out or cause to be carried out" a genocide upon Israel.