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Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by TheAlchemist on Tuesday December 19, 2023 @07:22PM (#38703904)
The thing is, we are talking about building homes and apartments - it's easy to say 'just build more', but harder to do.

We would need 'China style' decisions - which ended up with building so many apartments, that they end up with a significant percentage of them being empty, and the ripples of those decision will crush their economy for the years to come.

Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by runsWphotons on Tuesday December 19, 2023 @07:43PM (#38704085)
People have been saying this forever but their economy keeps going along and does not look like it will stop until a dmeographic crisis.
Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by TheAlchemist on Tuesday December 19, 2023 @08:06PM (#38704270)
Well, it's only recently that their home builders and lenders started collapsing.

The music has stopped. It will take some time, but the outcome is almost inevitable.

Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by runsWphotons on Tuesday December 19, 2023 @10:21PM (#38705084)
Even if that happens, they will have plenty of housing. Worse things to make too much of abound.
Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by bakuninsbart on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @02:44AM (#38706331)
3 years ago, and it was induced by government policy. At any given point since I've become politically aware (around 08), there's been at least one narrative around China's coming collapse, and it hasn't materialised in the slightest yet.
Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by zamfi on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @08:59AM (#38708739)
Central planning is kind of where we are now already — housing construction is severely restricted, housing costs are subsidized in some areas for some people but not others, etc.

Competitive markets in general are pretty good at matching supply and demand, even when demand is pretty all over the place.

Cars are a great example in the US — sure, there are times when prices go haywire from supply shocks (e.g., due to chip shortages in the pandemic), but outside those no one really complains about a “car crisis”. There are new and used cars available at very many price points, old vehicles get retired and new ones are manufactured, etc.

In housing, one major reason we don’t “just build more” is precisely because of regulation that either prevents housing construction outright or makes it very expensive, nominally in the public interest. We don’t need state owned enterprises paid to construct vacant apartments — we have plenty of companies and individuals willing to build, we just need to let them.

Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by shuntress on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @09:21AM (#38708959)
We tore up all the train tracks and put down roads and parking lots everywhere. You can't get away from the effects of "central planning" just because you want to pretend the market is perfect.
Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by zamfi on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @01:00PM (#38711570)
I’m not pretending the market is perfect at all. I’m saying what central planning we do have has been very anti-housing development.

Your example perfectly supports that!

Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by shuntress on Wednesday December 20, 2023 @04:19PM (#38713784)
My point is that the world is complex. You can't just ignore external causes/effects for one case but not for the other. You can easily flip everything you said and it makes just as much sense. Look:

Central planning is kind of where we are now already — transportation options are severely restricted, transit costs are subsidized in some areas for some people but not others, etc.

Competitive markets in general are pretty good at matching supply and demand, even when demand is pretty all over the place.

Housing is a great example in the US — sure, there are times when prices go haywire from supply shocks (e.g., due to mortgage bubbles or material shortages in the pandemic), but outside those no one really complains about a “housing crisis”. There are new and used houses available at very many price points, old buildings get retired and new ones are manufactured, etc.

In transportation, one major reason we don’t “just build more” is precisely because of regulation that either prevents rail construction outright or makes it very expensive, nominally in the public interest. We don’t need state owned enterprises paid to construct unused trains — we have plenty of companies and individuals willing to build, we just need to let them.

Re:The housing shortage is larger than you think by zamfi on Thursday December 21, 2023 @02:24AM (#38717943)
Hmm. I sense you are trying to make a point here, one I might even agree with, but I confess I have no idea what it is.