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Re:Turing Awardees Republished Key Methods and Ideas Without... by rcbdev on Thursday December 14, 2023 @11:48AM (#38643445)
While I generally agree with you in these specific cases, I feel like this is a shortsighted form of argument nonetheless. Coming up with an idea begets a scalable implementation of it and it's not very wise to ascribe absolute value solely on one side of the equation.
Re:Turing Awardees Republished Key Methods and Ideas Without... by TimPC on Thursday December 14, 2023 @12:00PM (#38643697)
I think it's less about scalability and more about identifying specific choices that are promising. A lot of Schmidthuber's work paints out broad ideas in grand strokes and suggests hundreds of potential neural networks without evaluating what choices in that massive space are good. He then claims credit when other people identify the specific one or two of those hundred models (often with minor variations that make it not immediately obvious whether it perfectly fits the broad definition or not) that are actually promising.
Re:Turing Awardees Republished Key Methods and Ideas Without... by calf on Thursday December 14, 2023 @01:20PM (#38644957)
But if other people identify and further develop one or two out of his models, he should still be cited. If they did not use his work at all, coming ith one or two models independently, then that's a different situation. It's a bit of an honor code thing as well, it's hard to prove if somebody has a read a paper or not. But then there's a more stringent standard where one cites as part of surveying preexisting work, which can result in a vast list.
Re:Turing Awardees Republished Key Methods and Ideas Without... by oldesthacker on Sunday December 17, 2023 @01:27PM (#38675054)
Let's take an example: his "unnormalised linear Transformer," a neural network with "self-attention" published in 1992 under another name. It wasn't just an idea, it was implemented and tested in experiments. However, few people cared, because the computational hardware was so slow, and such networks were not yet practical. Decades later, the basic concepts were "reinvented" and renamed, and today they are really useful on much faster computers. Unquestionably, however, their origins must be cited by those who are applying them.

Why are some people here even debating the generally recognised rules of scientific publishing mentioned in the paper:

> The deontology of science requires: If one "reinvents" something that was already known, and only becomes aware of it later, one must at least clarify it later, and correctly give credit in all follow-up papers and presentations.