News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by shagie on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @07:35PM (#38621029)
There were programs here that had been written five thousand years ago, before Humankind ever left Earth. The wonder of it—the horror of it, Sura said—was that unlike the useless wrecks of Canberra’s past, these programs still worked! And via a million million circuitous threads of inheritance, many of the oldest programs still ran in the bowels of the Qeng Ho system. Take the Traders’ method of timekeeping. The frame corrections were incredibly complex—and down at the very bottom of it was a little program that ran a counter. Second by second, the Qeng Ho counted from the instant that a human had first set foot on Old Earth’s moon. But if you looked at it still more closely…the starting instant was actually about fifteen million seconds later, the 0-second of one of Humankind’s first computer operating systems.
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by kbutler on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @10:00PM (#38622125)
Love that reference to the Unix epoch, and the all-too-human misassociation with a seemingly more appropriate event.
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by ethbr1 on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @11:03PM (#38622503)
Archaeology focuses on the things that were important to past humans.

It seems impossible that, given current economic trajectories, there won't be software archaeology in the future.

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by ajb on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @11:29PM (#38622665)
Seems quite possible that the the present will seem to future archeologists like an illiterate dark ages, between civilisations from which paper records, that last long enough for them to find, are preserved.
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by viraptor on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:05AM (#38623312)
We already have software archaeology today. People who are into software preservation track down old media, original creators, and dig through clues to restore pixel-perfect copies of abandonware. It's only going to get bigger / more important with time if we don't concentrate on open standards and open source everywhere.
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by soulofmischief on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @05:37AM (#38625379)
And it's sad that many archivists have to break the law in order to secure the longevity of important cultural works.

Our abusive relationship with modern commercialism has disintegrated the value of art, folklore and tools, both in the eyes of consumers and producers, and we no longer as a society seek to preserve the greatest works of today's most cutting-edge mediums. It's quite a sad state of affairs, which will only be mourned with increasing intensity as time marches on and curious researchers try to piece together the early days of the internet and personal computing.

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by johnnymorgan on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @07:48AM (#38626575)
Thank goodness for that too. Star Control 2 was too good of a game to lose and is one of the best examples of this.
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by ethbr1 on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @09:01AM (#38627450)
I'd say game emulation is currently the most prevalent heavyweight archaeology.

In the more common case, it's simply archiving -- we still have hardware it can run on (e.g. x86).

The GPGPU and ML stuff is likely going to age poorer, although at least we had the sense to funnel most high level code through standardized APIs and libraries.

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by eli_gottlieb on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:53AM (#38623237)
What a silly thing to write. It's not a very self-improving computer system if it doesn't simplify itself, is it?
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by corysama on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:30AM (#38623450)
How very human-centric of you ;)

It’s not hard to imagine a program of ever increasing complexity, highly redundant, error-prone, yet also stochastically, statically, increasingly effective.

The primary pushback from this would be our pathetically tiny short term memory. Blow that limitation up and complexity that seems incomprehensible to us becomes perfectly reasonable.

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by saiya-jin on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @05:28AM (#38625309)
That would help for sure, but you would soon reach the limit of how much at the same time our brains can process consistently and how large mental model we can still effectively use.

Situation that have 500 viewpoints and 10,000 variously interacting facts to consider won't be any more comprehensible for a mere human, short term memory limiting us or not.

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by kbenson on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:21AM (#38623397)
If you need an arbitrary point of reference to count time from, what's simpler, making a new one or using the existing predominant one that everything else does?

Making a competing standard and then having to deal with interop between standards is not simpler or better unless there's an actual benefit to be had.

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by jbgt on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @02:19AM (#38623721)
Even smart people have an appendix!
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by viraptor on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:02AM (#38623288)
It depends if there's anything left to simplify. Maybe this is the optimum we'll reach between concise expression and accuracy of representation.
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by Linosaurus on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @02:49AM (#38623944)
That’s because it’s not a self-improving computer system. It’s just programming as it exists today for thousands of years.
Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by bamboozled on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @07:41AM (#38626503)
How would something grow in complexity yet get around the fact that changes would be hard to effect at scale?

Was the sarcasm lost on me?

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by shagie on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @10:30AM (#38628815)
The world of Deepness in the Sky (at that time, A Fire Upon the Deep is a very different time) doesn't have AI. It has civilizations that rise and fall every few centuries. The Qeng Ho are a trading culture that was formed to try to bind the wandering traders of the universe together into something that could stifle those collapses. This is probably strongly influenced by Foundation by Asimov.

Other things are quite advanced - but computing is rather "dumb". What is there is driven by a great weight of inertia of massive software (all written by regular humans) that itself is too large to fully audit and understand.

The story it tells is very much one about humans and societies.

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by yndoendo on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @10:32AM (#38628845)
Simplification is only accessible when understanding all systems are complex. Meaning, to simplify is just the ability to break down complexity into smaller parts.

We do this through categorization. For example, integrated circuits can be broken down into simplistic AND, OR, XOR, NOR, NAND, X OR, and NOt gates. Yet tying those together creates usable components such as Wifi radios and manufacturing automation.

Over simplification are concepts that lack understanding of complex systems. These are exploited by politicians. For example, deregulation will help drive the economy. Yet regulations have been proven to assist the economy long term by preventing the next variation of thalidomide. The panacea drug of the 1950s and 1960s that killed their users or caused massive birth defects.

Re:AI’s big rift is like a religious schism by shrimp_emoji on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @11:38AM (#38629863)
This is why, if you expand your cognitive light cone to distant future generations, you will conclude that using Rust is the only moral choice. (I still don't, but I mean still.)