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Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by prewett on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @05:37PM (#38619708)
How do you expect Israel to defend itself against an enemy that lives next door and is indistinguishable from the citizenry? Doing nothing is not an option: Hamas' explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Israel, and they are right next door. An analogous situation would be if some member(s) of the family next door publicly wanted you dead, and randomly shot at you, your family, and your house. But you don't know which ones, or how many, and you're pretty sure that most of the family is more or less okay with you living there. What do you think the police are going to do? And in this case, there is no police. So what is Israel supposed to do? (The reality is, there is no good solution, in part because Hamas engineered it that way, although I don't see any good solution even if they haddn't.)
Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by jmprspret on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @06:14PM (#38620153)
How do you expect Palestine to defend itself against an enemy that lives next door and is indistinguishable from the citizenry? Doing nothing is not an option: Israel's explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Palestine, and they are right next door.

The reality is, there is no good solution. Because Israel has engineered it that way, not Palestine, not Hamas.

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by nlh on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @07:40PM (#38621068)
I know the sibling commenter mentioned this, but it bears repeating just for emphasis:

> Israel's explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Palestine

This is categorically false.

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by ah27182 on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @08:12PM (#38621328)
It really isnt. You would be blind to think otherwise.

“I am the only one who will prevent a Palestinian state in Gaza and [the West Bank] after the war” - Netanyahu

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by ignoramous on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @08:26PM (#38621468)
> This is categorically false

If the people of the only democracy in the middle east didn't believe this, they'd not have elected Likud to power for 2 decades and counting.

  The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)

  a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

  b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform...
Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by nvm0n2 on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @06:27PM (#38620292)
> Israel's explicit, public goal is the annihilation of Palestine

No it is not. Israel got its own people out of the Gaza strip years ago and hasn't let them back in since. Israel supplies Gaza with water and electricity because Hamas prefers to spend its resources on building tunnel networks and rockets instead of power stations and water treatment works. It is also militarily superior and has nuclear weapons. If they actually decided to "annihilate" Gaza it would be a smoking pile of glass tomorrow, as the military capability is there.

> an enemy that lives next door and is indistinguishable from the citizenry

The IDF wear uniforms and are easily identifiable.

> Doing nothing is not an option

They have lots of options, including making peace with Israel. Step 1 would be to replace the government committed to its destruction, with one that is willing to talk instead of launch rockets. But the Palestinians seem to support the existing strategy.

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by covercash on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @07:15PM (#38620831)
> They have lots of options, including making peace with Israel. Step 1 would be to replace the government committed to its destruction, with one that is willing to talk instead of launch rockets.

How’s that working out for the Palestinians in the West Bank?

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by s1artibartfast on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @10:02PM (#38622138)
Obviously better than the Palestinians in Gaza? Is that in question?
Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by evancox100 on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:00AM (#38622881)
I mean, the actual material living conditions in the West Bank might be better, but don’t the Gazans at least have some form of sovereignty over their land? My understanding is that there is no real independent West Bank Palestinian government that exercises security over the land and the people on it. At least not in favor of the Palestinians.
Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by runarberg on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:40AM (#38623137)
West Bank also has to suffer constant raids from the IDF in addition to settler violence. Over 100 people had already died in such raids before oct. 7 just this year. They’re land has been partitioned, there are military checkpoints they must go through when the travel inside the West Bank. Many Palestinians are arrested on a regular basis, sometimes without any charges (administrative detention).

Settler violence is also a pretty big deal there, it ranges from vandalism, theft, murder and terrorism. This often goes unpunished and sometimes the IDF even helps settlers steal houses and land from West Bank Palestinians. Note that settlers may even include very conservative Floridians who just moved to “Israel” and feel entitled to a house owned and occupied by a Palestinian family.

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @01:18PM (#38631684)
Would you rather be living as a Palestinian in Gaza or the West Bank today?

I think the answer to that is very clear.

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by runarberg on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @02:22PM (#38632796)
West Bank for sure. However this is a false dilemma. You are presenting bow to your occupiers and live under oppression, vs. resist your occupiers and suffer genocidal violence.

As a Palestinian these may be your only choices, neither are good. But one is obviously better in the short term.

However there is another party to this dilemma, the occupier them selves. They also have a choice not to engage in genocidal violence upon resistance or oppress and colonize upon non-resistance. They have a choice to acknowledge and recognize the sovereignty, to decolonize, to integrate and grant equal rights, etc.

The dilemma problem is a damned of you do and damned if you don’t kind. It doesn’t matter what you pick. Your oppressor is the one that needs to pick a different path.

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by nvm0n2 on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @11:55AM (#38630169)
> don’t the Gazans at least have some form of sovereignty over their land?

They just got ground invaded by an army they can't fight, so, no.

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by js212 on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @10:04PM (#38622152)
How many times did Israel offer a two state solution? It the goal was to annihilate Palestine don’t you think they could have done that on 10/8? This is just nutty conspiracy theory stuff.
Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by fahhem on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @12:35AM (#38623104)
This is a common talking point, but Israel never once offered a real two state solution. All offers had a "poison pill" that they knew would get rejected, but they offered it for this exact talking point, to say they offered peace.

If you look up the actual offers and the negotiations around them, you'll see none of them even abided by international law, so they would have been illegal anyway.

Re:'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israe... by Aerbil313 on Thursday December 14, 2023 @12:53PM (#38644516)
> How do you expect Israel to defend itself against an enemy that lives next door?

I wonder why the "enemy" lives so close? How did they come there?