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Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by drewblaisdell on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @02:29PM (#3859472)
Is it fair to say that NASA would likely require many times the amount of funding for the same result as SpaceX?

I ask because as someone who was previously unfamiliar with the amount of funding SpaceX had to work with, $800 million sounds like an incredibly small amount of money to do (what looks like) more than NASA does with its ~$18 billion budget.

Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by InclinedPlane on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @03:11PM (#3859698)
NASA did a study on this actually. Using traditional NASA procurement methods it would have cost at least $4 billion to develop the Falcon 9.

Also keep in mind that the $800 million amount is for developing the Falcon I, Falcon 9 ($390 million total) and the Dragon spacecraft (about $400 million). Even had NASA used more commercial oriented procurement methods they estimate it still would have cost at least $1.7 billion to develop.

Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by edge17 on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @11:36PM (#3861280)
cool, wondering if you have a reference?
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by wolf550e on Thursday April 19, 2012 @12:02AM (#3861336)
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by schiffern on Thursday April 19, 2012 @03:47AM (#3861858)
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by drzaiusapelord on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @05:15PM (#3860259)
Meh. Manned space is only part of NASA's mission and the whole agency has been the Federal Agency of Low Earth Orbit for so long, its pretty crazy we're suddenly giving them a hard time. NASA is doing it right: giving up the LEO Shuttle monstrosity to commercial spaceflight and doing the things that are, yes, expensive and difficult. Protip: google 'nasa launch calendar 2011' and compare it to the number of launches SpaceX has had. Seriously, I'll just sit here and wait for you to do this. Now lets talk complexity of missions.

Cut NASA down to size and you're just getting more missiles and warships. You're not getting a tax break or the sudden birth of 100 SpaceX's. SpaceX should be applauded for its innovation and drive, not considered the low hanging fruit of space and everyone suddenly saying "This stuff is so easy why isn't NASA using their methods?!?" Because its not easy.

Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by dbarlett on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @03:11PM (#3859697)
Yes. According to a NASA study [1], Falcon 9 development would cost $1.3B as Cost Plus Fee ("traditional NASA") or $443M Firm Fixed Price ("more commercial approach"). Compare to SpaceX actual of "about $300M".

[1] http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/586023main_8-3-11_NAFCOM.pdf

Edit: NASA originally came up with the $4B/$1.7B estimates that InclinedPlane mentioned. They visited SpaceX, saw how they actually operated, and revised the estimated downward.

Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by bane on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @05:00PM (#3860185)
They visited SpaceX, saw how they actually operated, and revised the estimated downward.

I'm not sure that's really fair for NASA to do. The question they were supposed to be answering was "how much would this cost NASA to do?". They can't just see a more efficient operation and then cheat their numbers down because without Space-X, NASA would never have had a reference to work off of. NASA doing it the NASA way would have been the larger figure, not NASA doing it the Space-X way.

Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by john-n on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @09:02PM (#3860952)
"without Space-X, NASA would never have had a reference to work off", this works both ways.
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by cma on Thursday April 19, 2012 @12:18PM (#3863724)
>without Space-X, NASA would never have had a reference to work off of.

And where would Space-X be without the Saturn V...

Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by jacoblyles on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @02:47PM (#3859589)
Keep in mind that is $800 million over 8 years. So the Space X budget is about 0.6% of NASA's.
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by JeffBlauser on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @02:51PM (#3859608)
Not that there couldn't be inefficiencies at nasa, but they have many other programs going on which account for its budget.
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by hessenwolf on Thursday April 19, 2012 @07:45AM (#3862458)
Partly true, but partly there is a fundamental inefficiency at play in the way they do things.

On the space shuttle, every outer tile is unique and must be manufactured accordingly. Boeing cover their rockets in shitty orange foam.

When the shuttle returns, it is driven into this spider-like contraption that actually cost almost as much to build as a shuttle. Boeing put the rocket on its side, and use step-ladders, and, I kid you not, a plank.

Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by sliverstorm on Thursday April 19, 2012 @03:30AM (#3861829)
Remember that NASA's job is/was supposed to be to do stuff that hasn't been done before. SpaceX is doing something that has been done before more economically. It doesn't surprise me if two such organizations had different corporate "efficiency" levels.
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by cowkingdeluxe on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @02:40PM (#3859540)
Good point, and that $800 million was prorated over 4 years whereas NASA gets $18 billion annually.
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by mitchty on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @03:15PM (#3859719)
NASA also has fair amount more research going on unrelated to "build rockets" as well so direct numerical comparison isn't exactly valid.
Re:Why The US Can Beat China: The Facts About SpaceX Costs by loverobots on Wednesday April 18, 2012 @03:17PM (#3859725)
NASA is more than just lifting some stuff in space. They have staff they can't just fire, researchers, building and equipment that must be maintained, future projects and much more.

Hint: Fighter jets cost a lot more because parts have to made in many Congressional districts.