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Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by kazinator on Monday December 04, 2023 @02:44AM (#38514667)
Why would you use tubes if you're not making guitar distortion?

Do you really need pentodes at the speeds involved? It looks like the guy is toggling a switch by hand to generate a clock signal. Pentodes are devices for RF amplification.

Those 6AU6 tubes are 7 pin units, but they contain only one pentode element. Two pins for the heater, then five pins to hook up the pentode.

There exist common 8 or 9 pin tubes that contain two triodes, with which you could cut the tube count in half. (You wouldn't save any money because those tubes cost about twice as much. But less board area and fewer tube sockets counts for something.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by ganzsz on Monday December 04, 2023 @03:06AM (#38514819)
IIRC he has a few thousand of these 6AU6 tubes that he got in bulk. So he has designed most of his tube applications around these tubes.

About why to use tubes? I don't know, entertainment purpuoses I guess. His ventures into computing using tubes entertain some at least[0].

[0](n=1)

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by asddubs on Monday December 04, 2023 @04:39AM (#38515370)
Why not tubes? Anyone building a computer this primitive out of discrete components isn't doing it because of its utility anyway
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by j_not_j on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:54PM (#38525048)
Tubes. And diodes (see the BOM).
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by dharma1 on Monday December 04, 2023 @05:20AM (#38515611)
Warmer
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by BoxOfRain on Monday December 04, 2023 @05:59AM (#38515835)
> Why would you use tubes if you're not making guitar distortion?

I'm planning on building a stereo Mullard 5-10 next year, I know it will be objectively worse than a modern HiFi amp or even a more recent valve-based design at actually being an audio amplifier but I think it would be a fun anachronism to use a homebuilt 1950s amp with modern equipment and there's a lot to be said for the aesthetics of valve amps as well.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by qwery on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:15AM (#38515933)
Considering the primary use case seems to be for public demonstration, the tubes are a good way to get people to look at it. I have a sneaking suspicion that the creator might also like tubes.

What's the concern with using tubes? Do you really need tubes for guitar distortion?

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by doogieboo on Monday December 04, 2023 @09:30AM (#38517684)
Vacuum tubes are his specialty area. He's building a much larger vacuum tube computer and this is supposed to be a more mobile display version he can demo at events.

He's also done quite a few videos restoring old vacuum tube based test equipment from like HP. He does some really cool work.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by II2II on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:12AM (#38519040)
Well, he described the single board version as a trainer: a way to demonstrate how the larger model works. That's likely why the address/data lines are toggle switches and the close is a button. People can setup the state then execute when ready. The much larger version is the thing you see behind him on the wall (it is a work in progress). It is also intended to go to events, but it is much harder to understand ... thus the trainer.
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by TheCleric on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:56AM (#38519697)
> Do you really need tubes for guitar distortion?

Technically no. But most professional guitarists still swear by tube driven amps. Solid state is getting better every day, but I think we're still a long way out before most guitar players give up their tube amps.

I am perfectly happy with my Line6 Helix, but a few friends still turn their noses up at it.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by kazinator on Monday December 04, 2023 @02:04PM (#38521562)
Solid state per se isn't getting better¹. Software simulation of tubes ("software state"?) is getting better, or has been (it may have plateaued).

Tubes are still the reference model.

All the DSP cores in a modern amp are just a cover band playing tube tones.

---

1. I mean other than digital solid-state getting more highly integrated and faster, to run more complex software. The necessary analog audio paths in a DSP system aren't getting better.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by TheCleric on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:15PM (#38525762)
Yeah, the transistors themselves aren’t changing. Just how many and how well we can throw them at the simulation.

It’s more “tube virtualization” is getting better every day.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by kazinator on Monday December 04, 2023 @02:03PM (#38521546)
> What's the concern with using tubes?

Reliability/longevity, power draw/dissipation, high or higher voltages.

(Speaking of the latter, I wonder what plate voltages the guy is using. I'm guessing it could be well below 100V.)

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by deelowe on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:24AM (#38515977)
We could just as easily ask why would you use tubes for guitar distortion?
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by Tangurena2 on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:51AM (#38518742)
Hollow state devices saturate differently than solid state devices. Although FETs have similar saturation curves as tubes/valves (sometimes called "glass FETs" - both are voltage amplifiers while transistors are current amplifiers). The fuzz in most guitar amps is the hard saturation that transistors do. So I guess using tubes/valves for guitar distortion is a fashion/trend. There are a number of pre-amps for electric guitars that use tubes/valves to recreate some sounds from the 40s-60s.
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by kazinator on Monday December 04, 2023 @02:25PM (#38521866)
> The fuzz in most guitar amps is the hard saturation that transistors do.

Most guitar amps in what sense? Most guitar amp units shipped? Probably the biggest volume there is amateurs.

> recreate some sounds from the 40s-60s.

Try 40s-90s-00s--...?

Tubes are commonly used right for tones right up to the heaviest metal. It's common for some solid state driving device to be used, like an overdrive pedal. That doesn't necessarily provide any needed gain, but rather shapes the clean tone, which has an effect on what kind of distortion you get.

(Ironically, one difference between "old school" metal and "modern" metal that amps used in modern metal have more tubes: like three 12AX7's in the preamp rather than two. Nothing needs another vacuum tube more than "modern"!)

In other words, the use of tubes in rock guitar continued to evolve well into the 1990s. So tubes are the key to authentically reproducing the sounds heard in 90s and later metal, not just 40s through 60s.

Which is not to deny that solid state devices aren't used for distortion, either as driving elements for tubes or alone.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by kazinator on Monday December 04, 2023 @01:54PM (#38521410)
Mainly because the dead simple circuits (common-cathode class A amplification stages taken out of a textbook) produce the sought-after tones. Nothing needs to be contrived other than some resistor and capacitor values for a certain tonal profile you may be looking for.

I prefer to have solid state almost everything, including the power amp; but there should be a couple of tubes in there for making noise.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by jovial_cavalier on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:42AM (#38516550)
Idk. Why not just simulate it on your Ryzen 9?
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by kazinator on Monday December 04, 2023 @01:57PM (#38521450)
- Because it's not a hardware project at all then. Using transistors versus tubes is still a hardware project on the same level of abstraction.

- You've not gotten away from hardware; it's still there.

- You're using billions of transistors to simulate the operation of dozens of transistors/tubes, which is inelegant. The chip with those transistors may be small, much smaller than your project, but, in theory, your design with the few dozen transistors could be shrunken down to a chip that would be barely visible to the naked eye.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by jovial_cavalier on Monday December 04, 2023 @02:35PM (#38522003)
The guy knows that tubes are not the most efficient way to implement this. He's making it with tubes because it's cool. It's not that hard to understand.
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by kazinator on Monday December 04, 2023 @03:56PM (#38522919)
The topic has changed in this subthread; this is now why build something (with discrete components, be they transistors or tubes) rather than simulate.

The educational value of building hardware is obvious to me; it cannot be replaced with simulation, and simulation runs on hardware that someone built, who knew how.

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by jovial_cavalier on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:10PM (#38524537)
Good to know that the topic has changed. Let me know if it changes again!
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by DeathArrow on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:30AM (#38516938)
> Why would you use tubes if you're not making guitar distortion?

Why even bother building something when you can simulate it on your PC in 10th of the time?

Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by dboreham on Monday December 04, 2023 @09:25AM (#38517616)
It's an art project.
Re:A Vacuum Tube Single Board 1-Bit Computer [video] by calamari4065 on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:49PM (#38524971)
He's building a CPU from scratch. Practicality is not a concern at all.