Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by gravelc on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:30AM
(#38471148)
Sceptical of this. Where did that number come from? What's the uncertainty? Yes, it's an extremely unlikely event, but unlikely events happen all the time. There's just as good an argument that given the advantages conferred by the union, it's bound to be successful given enough iterations.
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Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by vikramkr on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:35AM
(#38471175)
I mean, it happened again with chloroplasts and there's a bunch of other cases of endosymbiosis too it's not that rare
Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by bonzini on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:49AM
(#38471261)
Making it happen once is harder than doing it a second time. Plant cells have both mitochondria and chloroplasts.
Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by vikramkr on Thursday November 30, 2023 @03:59AM
(#38471309)
I'm unfamiliar with research into the difficulty of the second endosymbiotic event that no humans were present to measure and analyze being reduced by the existence of a first endosymbiotic event that has also not been replicated in a lab yet, resulting in another n=1 data point
Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by favoritecolor on Thursday November 30, 2023 @08:14AM
(#38473066)
I think this might count as endosymbiosis replicated in a lab: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30373839/
Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by vikramkr on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:06PM
(#38479065)
It's a system to measure endosymbiosis in an organism that's already undergone endosymbiosis so not directly applicable for the entirety of gp's hypothesis, but there's definitely a ton of research into it. There'll always remain a question of if we engineer a system does that work the same way as the evolutionary path since we have the benefit of being non-random/guided by intelligence. It's like with abiogenesis, if we ever figure out a system that lets us reproducibly create life within the timespan of a couple years so we can replicate it and study it reasonably that system almost certainly isn't the original way it happened, but it'll give us good insights into the concepts hopefully
Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by bonzini on Thursday November 30, 2023 @08:56AM
(#38473551)
In order to protect its genome from the mitochondrial genome, the host cell had to evolve the nucleus and possibly also sexual reproduction. Once that's done, it works just as well for the chloroplast.
Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by vikramkr on Thursday November 30, 2023 @04:01PM
(#38479008)
The nucleus is also considered a potential candidate for endosymbiosis [1] and I'd really love to see some actual evidence for your claims at some point instead of just vague handwaving
Re:Marine bacteria genus may hold mitochondria's closest rel...
by kridsdale1 on Thursday November 30, 2023 @08:07PM
(#38481621)
I appreciate you for calling out the number. It’s ok to say “vanishingly minuscule”. A number may seem insignificant but what was presented was actually precise.