Re:Some might not see how much work it was to maintain xorg ...
by roenxi on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @04:52PM
(#38451812)
The issues that got us to where we are with X are twofold and unlikely to repeat:
1) The nature of the hardware changed completely. The core X protocol [0] was designed around 2D shapes and is prepared to do things like FillPoly or PutImage. This means it was largely caught unaware by the move to shader-based graphics and the absurd amount of processing power we have todaty in graphics cards. Wayland from what I understand just manages buffers which is better design. Things like OpenGL were tacked on to X as an extension, and now pretty much everything wants to be handled through OpenGal, but the X design wasn't prepared for that.
2) That would have been enough to kill X from what I've seen, but ... the major vendors had horrible binary drivers that only supported X, so every fork or new project died. The big change was AMD buying ATI and taking the drivers open source from 2007, since then there have been the sound of plate tectonics as the Linux graphic stack has reformed because now it is possible to develop deep in the graphics stack independently of AMD/Nvidia support. Note that if Wayland needed to work well on Nvidia it would have likely died a decade ago.
So the positive things are Wayland probably won't be hit by the same level of hardware change, and if it is it is much easier to replace. Really what has changed is that the majority of vendors have open source drivers, and Nvidia is eventually going to fold and join the club. Not that it matters, anyone who cares in the Linux ecosystem buys AMD - this deep learning thing has been an unfortunate stumbling block but that looks like it will be transient to me.
1) The nature of the hardware changed completely. The core X protocol [0] was designed around 2D shapes and is prepared to do things like FillPoly or PutImage. This means it was largely caught unaware by the move to shader-based graphics and the absurd amount of processing power we have todaty in graphics cards. Wayland from what I understand just manages buffers which is better design. Things like OpenGL were tacked on to X as an extension, and now pretty much everything wants to be handled through OpenGal, but the X design wasn't prepared for that.
2) That would have been enough to kill X from what I've seen, but ... the major vendors had horrible binary drivers that only supported X, so every fork or new project died. The big change was AMD buying ATI and taking the drivers open source from 2007, since then there have been the sound of plate tectonics as the Linux graphic stack has reformed because now it is possible to develop deep in the graphics stack independently of AMD/Nvidia support. Note that if Wayland needed to work well on Nvidia it would have likely died a decade ago.
So the positive things are Wayland probably won't be hit by the same level of hardware change, and if it is it is much easier to replace. Really what has changed is that the majority of vendors have open source drivers, and Nvidia is eventually going to fold and join the club. Not that it matters, anyone who cares in the Linux ecosystem buys AMD - this deep learning thing has been an unfortunate stumbling block but that looks like it will be transient to me.
[0] https://x.org/releases/X11R7.7/doc/xproto/x11protocol.html