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Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by cjrp on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @09:53AM (#38446350)
> It baffles me that there was even a need for 'a deal'. I mean: WTF. Can't we just be free?!

Sure, but that freedom means not doing any trade with your neighbours, not letting people from your country visit the EU (and vice versa), not importing any energy, etc.

Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by longdudefromnl on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @10:27AM (#38446687)
Why does the EU have to limit trade? Importing energy? Can't you just leave that to the countries themselves? That's my whole point: the EU was never a good plan.
Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by blackbear_ on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @11:22AM (#38447428)
> Can't you just leave that to the countries themselves?

No. A big point in favor of the EU is that countries do not negotiate individually but as a single block. This is an advantage because it gives them more power and the ability of getting better deals (in aggregate). Which is exactly the sort of "bullying" that you are complaining about: by deciding to go alone, the UK is weaker and gets worse deals.

In fact, a well-functioning EU is one of the only ways in which European countries can hope to count anything in a world dominated by much larger economies (US, China, India, ...)

Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by longdudefromnl on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:01PM (#38447950)
Call me naïve, but what's the point of 'more power'? And 'better deals'? Didn't we have enough food on the table before the EU? Sure, striving for better is fine, but enough is enough right? And if you've build an economy that's favorable for everyone (as the Dutch have. Especially knowledge. See ASML) you don't need to convince other countries to do business with you. I just don't see the added value of the EU. What I see now is a wealth transfer form the Dutch to the 'poor' EU countries. If you don't believe me, checkout the pension fund management of the Dutch. (more than 1000 billion euro 'disappeared' over the last 10 years and shows up in Greece, Italy, Spain. Or as windmill. Or a rainbow flag.). Man, I get angry even talking about it. Wasting the future of my children.
Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by blackbear_ on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @02:23PM (#38450038)
> what's the point of 'more power'?

To defend (y)our interests against other economic blocks that are more powerful and not necessarily nice to you. With ASML you are well covered for now, but China is catching up. And how can 18 million people compete against 1.4 billion? The Dutch GDP is just a bit higher than Beijing'!

I'm not gonna defend every EU policy and I am not arguing that the current state of the EU is satisfactory. All I am saying is that European countries are better off together; there is a reason why "divide and conquer" is a thing.

Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by cjrp on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @10:53AM (#38447022)
I'm talking about having left the EU. Countries then have to sort out these deals themselves, that's the whole point.
Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by easywood on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @09:56AM (#38446385)
>> the EU wasn't really cooperating in making a deal with the UK. Could you clarify this? What kind of deal should the UK have gotten? Should the UK get a better deal than other countries which are not in the union?
Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by longdudefromnl on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @10:26AM (#38446668)
Give the UK (the people in the UK) the freedom to do business with whomever they want. Without 'bullying' border rules. But no, EU said: You left us and that makes us angry.

My whole point is: there should never have bin a EU. What was wrong with the agreement between countries?

Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by ghaff on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @10:43AM (#38446909)
There was always a tension between some sort of common market trade organization and a European superstate—which the UK never fully bought into in important aspects anyway.
Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by petre on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @12:17PM (#38448164)
You should have stayed in the EEA or EFTA then. The UK was one of the founding members of the EEA. Tatcher was quite against the EU and the Euro anyway.
Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by fzeroracer on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @09:23AM (#38445991)
I don't understand your point. The EU and all of the stuff associated with it was part of the agreement. Brexit was the UK backing out of that agreement, which means now they need to negotiate with individual countries (and the EU as a bloc). Which means now they need to figure out how the borders are going to work, how immigration/travel is treated, how imports/exports should be treated etc.

Why is it baffling that they need a deal when that's exactly what they wanted? It sounds like you want the ability for a country to leave the EU, but then not have to negotiate all of the benefits that came with being in the EU. Which, isn't exactly how it works.

As a similar analogy, it would be like if one of the states here in the US successfully seceded. The US would be under no obligation to make deals with said state, they would have to negotiate as two separate countries and all of the geopolitical stuff that comes with it.

Re:Tax, healthcare, immigration: why Dutch people voted for ... by longdudefromnl on Tuesday November 28, 2023 @10:26AM (#38446672)
See my reply above. My whole point is that the EU was never a good plan.