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Re:The Telegram app has been a key platform for Hamas. Now i... by philwelch on Thursday November 02, 2023 @12:37AM (#38109046)
Jabalia isn’t even a refugee camp in the sense that you probably assume. It’s not full of tents and recently displaced people from the war in Gaza; it’s a permanent settlement that was originally established as a refugee camp in 1948. Many of the displaced refugees in the Gaza Strip have heeded Israeli warnings and gone south of the Wadi, though Hamas has physically obstructed and even attacked them for doing so.

At any rate, the target wasn’t the civilian settlement. It was a Hamas headquarters and weapons production facility. Hamas tends to build these things underneath and around civilian population centers.

Re:The Telegram app has been a key platform for Hamas. Now i... by ChatGTP on Friday November 03, 2023 @10:50AM (#38129672)
I read The Guardian article too [1], I just don't really get how it's justified by anything you've said.

If Hamas attacks innocents for leaving and the IDF attacks them for staying, it's kind of a shitty thing to do then to just blow them up right?

Considering Israel has for sure the upper hand, I don't see why they need to be so hasty to just blow the shit out of everything really?

I'm not sure if you have Children but good luck just "fleeing south" with a family. Heavily pregnant wife and 2 kids for example.

Experts on international humanitarian law said asking civilians to leave did not absolve Israel of the responsibility to protect those who chose to stay, when it was launching attacks.

“Civilians that that cannot leave or do not leave are still civilians. And so the same rules apply,” said Helen Duffy, professor of international humanitarian law and human rights at Leiden University in the Netherlands.

“You cannot target civilians. You cannot carry out indiscriminate attacks and you cannot carry out attacks that have disproportionate impact on civilians and civilian objects.”

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-a...

Re:The Telegram app has been a key platform for Hamas. Now i... by philwelch on Saturday November 04, 2023 @02:39PM (#38143897)
The IDF isn’t attacking or targeting innocents and it’s not carrying out indiscriminate attacks. It’s targeting Hamas. Hamas has historically been able to use human shields to protect themselves (which is a war crime).

It is a very shitty situation, which is why Israel spent the last 17 years following the exact policy you’re advocating, including refraining from airstrikes when Hamas had enough human shields in place. After October 7, that’s no longer a viable policy. Hamas needs to be removed from power, not just for the security of Israel but also for the good of the Palestinians in Gaza whom Hamas has been murdering and robbing for the past 17 years. Allowing Hamas to protect themselves by using the civilian population of Gaza as human shields only incentivizes that behavior and protects Hamas.

Israel has “the upper hand” only because of the weapons that you’re demanding they don’t use. No urban battle in recent history—not Fallujah, not Mosul where ISIS was defeated—has ever taken place without airstrikes and civilian casualties. There is no way to win the battle for Gaza without any civilian casualties, and that’s a deplorable state of affairs, made worse by the actions of Hamas. Unfortunately, allowing Hamas to stay in power would be even worse.