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Re:The Grug Brained Developer by randomdata on Tuesday October 31, 2023 @06:34AM (#38082676)
> That's just rude and uncalled for.

But is it wrong? Based on your stated experience, not even you seem to accept type systems that force formal proofs – instead accepting lesser type systems that make decent tradeoffs between catching some problems (and providing popup magic!) without bogging you down in every little detail.

Re:The Grug Brained Developer by freilanzer on Tuesday October 31, 2023 @08:15AM (#38083582)
> But is it wrong?

Yes, because people don't "not often ship code in statically typed languages". It's obviously wrong.

Re:The Grug Brained Developer by Spivak on Tuesday October 31, 2023 @08:56AM (#38084089)
I think you're taking offense on behalf of Java when the paragraph is dragging Haskel and Rust.
Re:The Grug Brained Developer by randomdata on Tuesday October 31, 2023 @11:24AM (#38086263)
Is it? When was the last time you saw Coq in the wild? If you ever saw it you can be certain the program is correct, but...

Clearly type systems live on a spectrum with varying degrees of sacrifices made, with each sacrifice compromising some ability to check for correctness, but giving back some other advantage, improved developer productivity being one possibility.

It is not a question of static typing or not – it is how complicated of a type system do you really need? Even Grug agrees that dynamic typing is not sufficiently complicated, but maybe a static type system that falls somewhere around the middle of the spectrum that helps catch the most grievous of errors (and provides popup magic!) with a sprinkling of automated testing to fill in the gaps where the type system falls short is best for the vast majority of programming situations?

Re:The Grug Brained Developer by freilanzer on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @07:49AM (#38189679)
There is a difference between Coq and say Haskell, for example. I guess I will disprove your entire point by finding an unknown dynamic language that nobody uses then.
Re:The Grug Brained Developer by harimau777 on Tuesday October 31, 2023 @09:39AM (#38084633)
I think that it might be misguided. Excessively prioritizing how quickly you ship code is probably the single quickest way to summon the complexity demon.
Re:The Grug Brained Developer by harimau777 on Tuesday October 31, 2023 @09:51AM (#38084811)
Or maybe naïve would be more accurate? I could see how strict typing might not be needed if the developers write simple code on their own. However, in practice strict typing is necessary to protect yourself from developers who are unwilling to put in the effort to write simple code.