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Re:The product manager role is a mistake by robertlagrant on Sunday October 29, 2023 @12:32PM (#38060168)
Here's my solution: get (or be) a strong tech lead that can write tickets, negotiate features, and steer technical direction. They can optionally run the team as well, or that can have a separate person, who is still technical, in the team who keeps the trains running on time with meetings etc. The product person is slightly more distant; not in every meeting, and the tech lead makes sure work is synced with the product requirements, which are documented not in tickets, but at a higher level in written+diagram form.

That way you don't have "product" people who are really just status reporting for the team, or "product" people who are really just writing bad tickets that need rewriting. You have actual product people who focus on where the product should be going.

You also don't have a "delivery manager" role. The team needs to be steered into doing this by a decent lead who can do the 3% admin required to keep on top of this sort of thing.

Re:The product manager role is a mistake by yellow_mixer on Sunday October 29, 2023 @02:01PM (#38061026)
What you are describing sounds like a Technical Product Manager, not a tech lead. The minute you have them “run a team”, you are combining both roles into one.
Re:The product manager role is a mistake by robertlagrant on Sunday October 29, 2023 @03:04PM (#38061557)
Nothing I've mentioned is anything to do with product management. The optional "run a team" bit is "team lead". Not product.
Re:The product manager role is a mistake by yellow_mixer on Sunday October 29, 2023 @04:45PM (#38062593)
Writing a tickets is usually not owned by engineering. Some engineering managers may do this work, but it’s usually owned by Product while Engineering helps refine and turn tickets into actionable work. Engineering also doesn't negotiate features. Engineerings job is to help product determine LOE and help Product prioritize requirements for a future release. Again, strong engineering leads can do this work, but I believe Product Owner should hold these responsibilities.
Re:The product manager role is a mistake by robertlagrant on Monday October 30, 2023 @06:24AM (#38067628)
> I believe Product Owner should hold these responsibilities

That's inarguable, as you haven't said why, but I'm saying the structure I described works well. My rationale is: product people don't generally write great tickets, and they also aren't in a position to negotiate features based on technical constraints.