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Re:Running the "Reflections on Trusting Trust" Compiler by chii on Thursday October 26, 2023 @03:56AM (#38022949)
> decompilers ... converge to a fixed point

but why would you assume that the decompiler is not backdoored? It would know to remove the backdoor code, so the fixpoint is not going to show anything.

Re:Running the "Reflections on Trusting Trust" Compiler by TeMPOraL on Thursday October 26, 2023 @04:25AM (#38023121)
In theory, any computer tool you use could've already been compromised. You can't be 100% certain (even if you bootstrap from hand-made punchcards, the backdoor could be hidden in hardware).

In practice, you can push the likelihood of this down to arbitrarily small levels. Pick a decompiler that's as unrelated to your compiler as you can find. Then pick a second decompiler that's maximally unrelated to both the compiler and the first decompiler. It's highly unlikely all three tools will be backdoored in a fully compatible way.

Re:Running the "Reflections on Trusting Trust" Compiler by codeflo on Thursday October 26, 2023 @05:36AM (#38023546)
Not if the backdoor is inserted into fopen/mmap calls in such a way that when any executable opens the binary for reading, it sees a version without the backdoor.
Re:Running the "Reflections on Trusting Trust" Compiler by wizzwizz4 on Thursday October 26, 2023 @06:03AM (#38023679)
That can't be done without either changing the file size or being really obvious.
Re:Running the "Reflections on Trusting Trust" Compiler by acdha on Thursday October 26, 2023 @09:52AM (#38025548)
Malware does that all the time - return different stat() results, change the contents for anything which isn’t execution, etc. It’s detectable but fundamentally you’re in a nasty race since the attacker can use the same tools you do.
Re:Running the "Reflections on Trusting Trust" Compiler by ericpauley on Thursday October 26, 2023 @07:46AM (#38024302)
> In theory, any computer tool you use could've already been compromised. You can't be 100% certain (even if you bootstrap from hand-made punchcards, the backdoor could be hidden in hardware).

This is the whole point of Thompson’s lecture, though.