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Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by hippoSquid on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @08:54PM (#38007824)
China has 1.4B people with a GDP per capita 1/6 as high as the US. There isn't any reason to think the average Chinese person will permanently keep producing 1/6th as much value as the average American. Chinese GDP growth is still about double the US at the moment.

By the 2030s the US national debt will reach about $50T. Interest payments could be up to $2T per year if rates stay high. That would be unsustainable. The US would have to either cut government expenses or increase inflation to deal with the debt, both of which would hurt GDP.

Both countries probably have negative outlooks in the short/medium term but I wouldn't bet against China simply due to their much larger population. Their population could start decreasing and aging but they will continue to have vastly more working age adults than the US for a long time to come.

Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by logicchains on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:19PM (#38007987)
>There isn't any reason to think the average Chinese person will permanently keep producing 1/6th as much value as the average American

It's entirely possible given how the current Chinese government has forsaken its previous commitment to economic liberalisation and is moving towards more and more state control of the economy. If it moved close enough to the approach of Maoist China (or current North Korea), it could go decades without seeing any meaningful growth in GDP per capita, much as North Korea doesn't see any significant GDP growth.

Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by TapWaterBandit on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @02:17AM (#38009723)
I agree with this. China outstripping the USA honestly seems inevitable to me barring state control of the economy crippling their development.

So somewhat ironically, if the USA/West wins their political battle to liberalise China, China would almost certainly become the dominant nation within the "Western/Modern" coalition.

Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by catlover76 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:26PM (#38008036)
What really are the consequences to the debt?
Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by djbusby on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @09:45PM (#38008150)
Interest payment becomes too burdensome. Then it's a raise taxes/cut expenses kind of debate.
Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by mensetmanusman on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:16PM (#38008374)
Inflation has taken a bite out of the debt.
Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by gruez on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:23PM (#38008792)
That's canceled out by rising interest rates
Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by seanmcdirmid on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:54AM (#38021748)
Which was cancelled out by even more inflation in other countries (so while the dollar lost value, the RMB lost even more value).
Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by catlover76 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:05PM (#38008287)
Makes sense.

What are the consequences of default?

Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by s1artibartfast on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:23PM (#38008419)
Either having to balance a budget or a downward cycle where more and more interest is required for debt, leaving less and less for function of government.
Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by catlover76 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:49PM (#38008589)
To be clear: the consequence is that, the next time around, nobody will lend to us if we need it (which is why we would have to start balancing the budget)?
Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by s1artibartfast on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @02:18AM (#38009734)
Next time is every single year because the US, like most countries, need to borrow to run the government.
Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by hippoSquid on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @10:46AM (#38013401)
Yes we would need to immediately start running a balanced budget. It would probably be a long time before we could borrow again. If we ever did borrow money again, we would be paying a higher interest since we've shown lenders that we can default.

It would also mean $33T in assets disappearing from the economy. That's a massive amount that would bankrupt tons of individuals/companies that lent the money. $2.8T of that amount is the social security trust fund which means we need to also instantly cut social security too. $7T of the debt is held by other countries who wouldn't be happy with us either.

Re:What being filthy rich in China looked like in 1, 1000, a... by ZoomerCretin on Thursday October 26, 2023 @12:40AM (#38021664)
>The US would have to either cut government expenses or increase inflation to deal with the debt, both of which would hurt GDP.

Is the US so broken brained on taxation that we can't even imagine it as an option? You know that's still how we collect revenue, right?