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Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by contrarian1234 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @05:24AM (#37996638)
Can you say more why you chose them for your product? I can't think of any conceivable reason you'd choose them over other options.. unless being open-everything is a core part of your brand/mission (which is completely fair, but pretty niche)
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by edrxty on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @05:29AM (#37996673)
FPGA soft cores for space applications. You can't (or at least couldn't at the time) license ARM cores for FPGA deployments outside of R&D because ARM is psychotic.
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by gchadwick on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @06:00AM (#37996850)
We've had people consider Ibex for space applications, well verified and has a dual-core lockstep option: https://github.com/lowRISC/ibex.

An ETH Zurich team have done a triple core lockstep version for cubesats: https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/05/riscv_microcontroller...

Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by edrxty on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:51AM (#38000895)
https://www.gaisler.com/index.php/information/servicessuppor...

Gaisler is also current one of the biggest players there IIRC. I've used them for stuff in the past.

[dead]
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by kwhitefoot on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @06:21AM (#37996972)
> nothing else left to say but wishing you to have a psychotic episode yourself.

That remark sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. Two wrongs don't make a right you know.

Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by Zetobal on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @06:23AM (#37996992)
That's fine for people like him.
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by londons_explore on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @06:21AM (#37996977)
>can't license ARM cores for FPGA deployments

I believe this is because ARM wasn't confident they'd be able to enforce licensing effectively.

For non-FPGA designs, they only need to have insider knowledge from a handful of fab companies to detect those using cores without valid licenses.

Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by lizknope on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:50AM (#37999965)
ARM has a team involved in accounting and finding "catch up revenue." This are royalty payments that were supposed to be paid but the customer "accidentally forgot" to pay but thanks to ARM's "helpful accountants" they get the money sent over.

How exactly ARM does this isn't always clear. For hard IP there is a GDS layer called IP tags and the foundry is supposed to scan this layer and can report numbers back to IP providers like ARM, Cadence, Synopsys, etc. If the customer removed this layer "accidentally" then the foundry can still scan for certain patterns and structures within the GDS mask data. Like a unique hidden watermark and report back to the IP vendor.

For soft IP that is synthesized there are probably other ways to do it but I'm not that up to date.

Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by rcxdude on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @07:04AM (#37997301)
AFAIK you can get cortex M1 and M3 softcores in the last few years at least. I don't know about anything bigger though.
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by adrian_b on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @08:29AM (#37998189)
Which are very old, completely obsolete cores.
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by naasking on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @10:19AM (#37999504)
Space applications tend to use older cores and processes anyway because they're more resistant to radiation.
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by edrxty on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @11:54AM (#38000941)
Less inherent robustness, more just general tendency towards "solving tomorrow's problems with yesterday's technology"

There are companies that take commercial parts and nuke them under a beam at places like TAMU to profile their performance then resell to aerospace. The issue is by the time this flight qualification happens the parts are old as hell.

Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by naasking on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:17PM (#38001337)
But there's still a good reason older hardware is preferred. The wider traces on older hardware means less susceptibility to random bit flips due to the higher background radiation. The extremely narrow traces of modern processes are already vulnerable to quantum effects on Earth where radiation is significantly attenuated.
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by nickelpro on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @12:34PM (#38001595)
We're talking about softcores here, not fabrication processes, flashing an FPGA with an older softcore design doesn't somehow make it more resistant to interstellar radiation
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by johnwalkr on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @06:37PM (#38006638)
For small microcontrollers you can just buy modern radiation tolerant chips from e.g. microchip for about $2000 or so per unit, but you need a certain expertise to select the other components you need and design/qualify. Or you can any one of dozens of different cubesat cpu boards, which typically have COTS components and has gone through radiation screening (which is way more work than "nuking under a beam"). These are typically sold for cubesats, but don't meet the requirements for qualification and documentation that is required for an ESA or NASA-related project beyond a cubesat.

There are the famous "old as hell" rad-hard powerPCs which cost $200k, used for historical reasons or extreme environments like a fly-by of Venus. It's true that older chips may be inherently more radiation tolerant due to larger features on the silicon but it's a misconception that CPUs used in space are therefore always old as hell. These are usually selected because they are good enough and to reuse design and qualification from a previous project instead of spending millions and ten person-years on a new design.

But commercial spacecraft these days usually use something like this[1] triple-redundant 50MHz softcpu implemented on an FPGA or this[2] Ultrascale ~1Ghz SOC protected by a secret sauce of separate FPGA for watchdog and overcurrent detection. Both are modern, run linux and use modern development environments/tools. The former is slower but can recover upsets in realtime, while the latter is much faster but needs to reset itself to recover at least some types of upsets.

[1] https://www.aac-clyde.space/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/AAC_D...

[2] https://xiphos.com/product-details/q8

Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by rcxdude on Wednesday October 25, 2023 @04:47AM (#38010688)
Very old maybe, obsolete not so much. The M3 is still being designed into many, many applications today (though of course so is the 8051).
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by kramerger on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @08:21AM (#37998109)
Isn't LEON3 the go to core for these sort of applications?
Re:Major Changes at RISC-V Designer SiFive by razer6 on Tuesday October 24, 2023 @08:54AM (#37998512)