Please be dying, but not too quickly, part 2: The patient's perspective

Re:Please be dying, but not too quickly, part 2: The patient... by ekanes on Sunday October 22, 2023 @04:23PM (#37978749)

I'm sorry you had to go through that. Do you have any ideas on a better framework for society to approach this? As you allude, people intend the best for the patient, and this seems to be what we've come up with. "You are a fighter, you can do this."

It seems like the two possible frameworks are fighting vs enduring? (Others?)

If I had to guess, we might choose to position the patient as a fighter because to fight against harsh odds requires courage, so what we're giving is the compliment that you are courageous. I think that's the intent at least.

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Re:Please be dying, but not too quickly, part 2: The patient... by jdietrich on Sunday October 22, 2023 @07:17PM (#37979957)

I think the "fighter" rhetoric is specific to individualistic cultures that place a high premium on personal agency. Westerners in general and (liberal, college-educated) Americans in particular have a really hard time dealing with the idea that something might be largely or wholly out of their control. The opposite extreme would be fatalistic cultures, where one's death or survival is in the hands of god - deo volente, besiyata dishmaya, inshallah.

I think a reasonable middle ground starts with acknowledging that being seriously ill is just a shitty situation, that over a long enough time frame death is inevitable, and that outcomes are often determined mostly by dumb luck. Not being in control can be very distressing, but the struggle to try and retain control often just compounds that distress. Willing someone to "fight" a cellular process within their body probably isn't going to help them in any meaningful way, but there are lots of things that can be done to make them more comfortable. Hope is valuable, but false hope is a kind of cruelty; we all need to be better at accepting the limits of medicine and recognising the threshold of futility.

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Re:Please be dying, but not too quickly, part 2: The patient... by ekanes on Monday October 23, 2023 @07:31AM (#37984192)

Fantastic point - basically it'd be great to know how much it matters that the patient "fights". I do disagree that, "Willing someone to "fight" a cellular process within their body probably isn't going to help them..." in that we have some evidence that the mind can affect the body a fair bit, everything from the effectiveness of placebos to control of autonomic states. Who knows if one could rally better cellular defenses by feeling aggressive and active. One would be much more likely to stave off depression, which is caused by helplessness, especially if one doesn't have a higher power concept in their life that they could accept is in control.

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Re:Please be dying, but not too quickly, part 2: The patient... by denton-scratch on Monday October 23, 2023 @10:14AM (#37985938)

> especially if one doesn't have a higher power concept in their life

I don't think believing in metaphysical beings provides any protection against depression. Espcially if you're facing problems you can't solve (i.e. helpless), and your chosen being doesn't come up with the goods. And "in the middle of cancer treatment" would be a bad time to lose your religion.

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