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Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by rainsford on Monday October 16, 2023 @07:30PM (#37908092)
It's also a little hard to square that enemy with the earlier enemy of "...anti-merit, anti-ambition, anti-striving, anti-achievement, anti-greatness." So we're opposed to credentialed experts in favor of "the real world" but also opposed to those who don't care about merit or achievement? Are credentials and expertise not a reasonable measure of merit and achievement and aren't excessive appeals to the wisdom of the average textbook anti-merit populist nonsense?

I'm actually a fan of the overall idea of techno optimism. But it's hard to get behind a version that starts out with the premise that we should exclude experts who've spent their lifetime focused on getting really good at knowing WTF they are talking about presumably in favor of billionaire VCs who can speak to the "real world". Don't get me wrong, if we're going to become a galaxy spanning civilization or whatever, we'll certainly need large and regular doses of reality. But we'll also need a lot of credentialed expertise.

Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by suoduandao2 on Monday October 16, 2023 @09:09PM (#37908984)
I actually agree with the idea that we should judge people based on their popularity with customers rather than their peers. Credential are very often indicative of the former
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by tomComb on Monday October 16, 2023 @10:34PM (#37909814)
Who has a better idea whether a lawyer or a surgeon is actually good at their job - their clients or their peers?
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by Jensson on Monday October 16, 2023 @10:44PM (#37909889)
It is much easier to collude with peers than with clients, so I'm more likely to trust reviews from clients than peers.
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by c0pium on Monday October 16, 2023 @10:57PM (#37909990)
Much easier to lie to customers though.
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by nickpp on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @05:31AM (#37912510)
When you book a hotel do you base your decision on reviews from other customers or other hotel owners?
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by nradov on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @09:16AM (#37914518)
With professionals it's their peers. Unfortunately that doesn't really help unless you're in the "club". In any community the other doctors all know who are the best surgeons and who are the butchers. But they won't publicly badmouth a peer or even privately tell you unless they really trust you.
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by yao420 on Monday October 16, 2023 @10:40PM (#37909861)
Spectrum is the ‘most popular’ internet with the most customers in my area.

Not because they are liked but because they are the only option outside of maybe starlink.

Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by mentalpiracy on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:38AM (#37911382)
genuinely curious what truth-distilling insight you think the average customer has that somehow can’t be manipulated artificially.

people get duped by deceptive marketing every day, man.

Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by boringds on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:39AM (#37911754)
On the other hand, we have seen how perverse incentive amongst experts work too. Academia is rife with fraud (e.g. publishing 500 paper a year), because certain incentives make it possible. I agree expert are important and should be judged by peers, but incentives around budget allocation and prestige should not be attached to performance, especially in science. However I understand it's a complex topic so I probably miss a lot of information, just my 2 c.
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by suoduandao2 on Thursday October 19, 2023 @10:06AM (#37943113)
skin in the game. They paid for the product, and if the company's still in business, didn't sue it or convince everyone else not to. A good review costs a restaurant critic nothing.
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by jehb on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @07:44AM (#37913468)
I'm surprised at how many people took the bait to treat this as an either/or proposition. One criteria of evaluation is never sufficient to make a good decision - why not ask both? A smart consumer reads the product label and the user reviews.
Re:The Techno-Optimist Manifesto by nvm0n2 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @08:27AM (#37913913)
> Are credentials and expertise not a reasonable measure of merit and achievement

I think the assumption behind their statement is that this in fact the case.

Media/politics use the words credentials and expertise interchangeably, and credentials invariably means those issued by universities. So a professor is assumed to always be an expert, even if they can't evidence that in reality. The result is a large number of ivory tower academics who call themselves experts in things, but who have no skin in the game and whose theories are never tested against reality. Hence the replication crisis, which Marc Andreessen is on the record as being very concerned/aware about.

Determining actual expertise is the Number 1 problem faced by both VCs and startup founders, and those are both communities who are famously rather indifferent to credentials.