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Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by tivert on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:30PM (#37906944)
> Glyphosate is used for only one reason, it’s profitable for Monsanto.

It's used because it's effective broad-spectrum herbicide. My understanding it's quite a bit less toxic than its predecessors, and I understand there's no equivalent replacement on the horizon.

IIRC, the problem was they marketed it as practically nontoxic to humans, which is definitely not the case.

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by m00x on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:44PM (#37907091)
So far, there is monumental evidence that it's non-toxic to humans at normal doses. This study doesn't prove it's toxic.

It only introduces the aspect that it might be associated to kidney disease.

Everything is toxic to humans at the right dose, even water.

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by LorenPechtel on Monday October 16, 2023 @07:03PM (#37907890)
I would call causing chronic kidney disease to be toxic.

It sounds like they evaluated the chemical itself but didn't evaluate what could happen to the chemical once it was in the environment.

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by throwaway290 on Monday October 16, 2023 @07:43PM (#37908192)
> It sounds like they evaluated the chemical itself but didn't evaluate what could happen to the chemical once it was in the environment.

I bet that's most of evaluations and it's probably not even required to take into consideration the environment and how it can change the response...

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by cvccvroomvroom on Monday October 16, 2023 @08:17PM (#37908503)
And I would hazard a guess that this "mountain of evidence" was bought and paid-for by Monsanto.
Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by faeriechangling on Monday October 16, 2023 @09:22PM (#37909123)
I would hazard to guess that it’s been on the market for over half a century and has been controversial for eons and mountains of independent research has been done on it by this point notably by national health orgs.

Of course Monsanto is putting its finger on the scales of both the research that is done and the research that is seen but they are not some sort of omnipotent evil.

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by mardifoufs on Monday October 16, 2023 @10:29PM (#37909766)
So there's just no way to convince you then, right? Well for my part I say that all the anti glyphosate studies (not that there are many of them) are financed by competitors in the herbicide market. Just super convenient
Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by throwaway290 on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @06:10AM (#37912781)
Another alternative is that no one did any studies because there's finite amount of people and a lot of other topics to study, topics which are better financed by various conglomerates;)
Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by bumby on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:07PM (#37919121)
Part of this case was that Monsanto “bullied” scientists into favorable reports.
Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by metadat on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:54PM (#37907210)
> the problem was they marketed it as practically nontoxic to humans,

Has their marketing stance changed? Or does Glyphosate continue to be marketed as a relatively safe solution?

Roundup is still for sale at Home Depot, they sell massive quantities of it every day.

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by improv on Monday October 16, 2023 @06:12PM (#37907386)
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/10/637722786/jury-awards-termina...

>"We are sympathetic to Mr. Johnson and his family," Monsanto Vice President Scott Partridge said in a statement following the verdict. "Today's decision does not change the fact that more than 800 scientific studies and reviews ... support the fact that glyphosate does not cause cancer, and did not cause Mr. Johnson's cancer."

>He confirmed the company will appeal the decision "and continue to vigorously defend this product, which has a 40-year history of safe use and continues to be a vital, effective, and safe tool for farmers and others."

"Safe and effective"

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by tptacek on Monday October 16, 2023 @08:22PM (#37908540)
They're not making up the weight of the scientific evidence there.
Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by improv on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:48PM (#37918818)
Why do you think the jury ruled the way it did then?
Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by bumby on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @02:05PM (#37919092)
It’s possible the jury is not scientifically literate. One of the damning emails said “you can’t say Roundup doesn’t cause cancer.”

To a layman, this may be heard as “Roundup can cause cancer.”

To a scientist, this may simply mean “There isn’t sufficient data to make a strong claim.”

Same words, two very different interpretations. That’s why lawyers fight so hard for jury selection.

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by improv on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @01:07PM (#37931572)
Why is Monsanto continuing to make such unscientific claims then?
Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by bumby on Wednesday October 18, 2023 @03:35PM (#37933648)
I can’t speak for them, but it’s possible they have more data outside of that specific instance. I don’t know the context of that previous email statement.

E.g., It could have been a statement based on a single study, meaning they can’t make that claim based on that single study. But there may be less uncertainty (meaning stronger claims is more reasonable) when you look at it in the totality of data.

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by bumby on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:54PM (#37918903)
I’m not trying to shill for any mega corp, but it’s important to understand that toxicity is dose dependent. By his own words, Mr. Johnson was “showered” in the pesticide as a groundskeeper and didn’t fully change his garments afterwards.

Now I think Monsanto still has a duty to determine what safe levels of exposure are, but it’s important to not extrapolate this level of risk to the average consumer.

Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by cvccvroomvroom on Monday October 16, 2023 @08:14PM (#37908471)
The US lacks effective regulation and the precautionary principle with respect to chemical safety, agriculture, and food safety. Food safety in the US is mostly regulated by the FDA but it is grossly underfunded, understaffed, aspirational, and ultimately laughable. Largely the only ways consumers can protect themselves is by not buying toxic chemicals and avoiding non-organic foods because there is systemic pollution in the supply chain and a lack of safety standards for chemicals.
Re:Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chroni... by refurb on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @03:57AM (#37911858)
This is just FUD.

Making sweeping statements like “The US lacks effective regulation and the precautionary principle with respect to chemical safety, agriculture, and food safety.” tells me nothing other than your opinion.