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Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by zeroCalories on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:30PM (#37906097)
This fundamentally misses the problem. Investors are only able to speculate because there is a shortage of housing. They are betting that in the future even more people will want that housing, and they are probably right. The only real solution is to crash the housing market by building more houses in places that people want them. Banning speculation won't solve the problem, and it might actually make the problem worse because we will have even less development that people need. We need to heavily update construction regulations to be more sensible like Tokyo, and we probably need massive amount of direct and indirect public housing investments.
Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by zelon88 on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:36PM (#37906199)
I would argue we need to put limitations on what entities can purchase residential property. There is no reason a corp needs to own a 2 bedroom house. It is manipulating a critical market and destabilizing everything. Push them out of the market. They should have have no skin in this game.

You want to increase the supply. I want to tank the demand. The price will come down when the demand shifts from mcmansions to regular, affordable housing. It will be funny to see all those $1m+houses sit on the market as the correction unfolds. Nobody asked for them in most places. They were added by developers seeking to gentrify small towns like Rowley MA.

And taxes will come down too because towns will have no choice but to tax property owners more reasonably.

Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by zeroCalories on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:59PM (#37906560)
Rentals make up a small percentage of single family homes. Around 5% depending on where you are. Not letting black rock buy a home won't save you from the overpaid tech worker or nurse-account power couple from dropping 1.5x the listing price in cash. We know flooding supply works because we've seen it play out. Tokyo is the biggest metro area in the world, with a growing population, and reasonable rents because the government took serious measures to increase supply. Restricting demand by banning corporate investors probably won't help, but even if they did it did the effects would be minor. Focus on the solutions we know will work.
Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by Supermancho on Monday October 16, 2023 @08:42PM (#37908741)
> Not letting black rock buy a home won't save you from the overpaid tech worker or nurse-account power couple from dropping 1.5x the listing price in cash.

What data do you have to support this?

> As of 2022, investment companies own about one-fourth of all single-family homes in the US, accounting for 22% of American homes sold, down from 80% in 2020-2021

Naturally, the homes bought are all in the most densely populated areas with a relatively new construction (gentrified neighborhoods). I think it's gonna be a couple years before prices drop.

Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by zeroCalories on Monday October 16, 2023 @11:41PM (#37910299)
https://www.yardimatrix.com/publications/download/file/2530-...

Large institutions own 5%. Most of these "investors" are house flippers and small landlords trying to "make it big in real estate". It's not the 1% strangling the working class, it's the 10%. Any solution that doesn't hit them the hardest won't be a solution. Infact, we want more density, we need more gentrification, so I don't want to discourage large institutions from investing in a new apartment. But at the very least, if you claim to care about housing prices, don't prevent the government from building more housing.

Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by DrReachAround on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @12:39AM (#37910696)
The average home size in Tokyo is 60 square meters, that's 645 square feet. That's called a one room studio apartment in the US. I don't personally know anyone that wants to live in a box like that, except maybe single people just out of college with little income.
Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by javagram on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @11:11AM (#37916375)
There are plenty of people in the USA who live in apartments today. Building more apartments is outlawed in many areas due to land use rules. If people truly won’t live in the apartments, land use rules can be abolished and developers and builders won’t build those homes because they’ll find them unsaleable in the marketplace.
Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by kbelder on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @11:37AM (#37916806)
There's lots of people with little income. Many would find a tiny apartment preferable to not having a place to live.
Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by userinanother on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:37PM (#37918597)
Yeah but you get so many local amenities and conveniences in that 600sf place in Tokyo. In the USA you get none of that
Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by CapstanRoller on Thursday October 19, 2023 @03:00AM (#37939451)
How can this correction take place?

Individual home owners and business interests have a vested interest in maintaining a very tight grip on the status quo with regard to zoning, which is the primary tool for driving housing reform.

They will continue to do everything in their power to prevent the construction of affordable housing, because it will destroy their current real estate investments.

The non-landed folks have zero leverage within the political system.

Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by zelon88 on Monday October 16, 2023 @04:48PM (#37906376)
If we do that you'll have two social classes. You'll have the price fixed low income housing that looks like it belongs in a Command & Conquer game and you'll have the corporate owned HOAs that are just out of control expensive. Oh, and plenty of tent cities.
Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by zeroCalories on Monday October 16, 2023 @05:04PM (#37906610)
You don't need low income housing. Just make government housing at market rate. If you really want to be kind, offer it at maintenance cost. Even if housing prices don't fall(they probably will), they won't rise faster than inflation if the market is sufficiently flooded. Eventually wages will catch up to prices. Yes it will take a long time, but that's why we need to do it now. No. Twenty years ago.
Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by CapstanRoller on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @01:23AM (#37910930)
I'll take C&C barracks (a basic Quonset Hut) at this point, as long as I can own it and it's legally habitable. I don't care about aesthetics. In fact, something like that would be ideal as I could customize it completely.

Unfortunately those sorts of structures are banned by most municipalities.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quonset_hut

Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday October 17, 2023 @09:18AM (#37914547)
> If we do that you'll have two social classes. You'll have the price fixed low income housing that looks like it belongs in a Command & Conquer game

It does not have to be this way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKudSeqHSJk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6DBKoWbtjE

Re:If the Economy Is So Strong, Why Are Consumer Stocks Tank... by friend_and_foe on Monday October 16, 2023 @10:37PM (#37909835)
Well it's two problems: the monetization of non money assets and the artificial housing shortage to encourage housing as an investment vehicle. A significant percentage of property investment is simply hedging against inflation. Even someone speculating is doing so to a large degree.

So the other fundamental problem is that it is impossible to save money because it is constantly being debased.