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Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by dragonwriter on Saturday October 14, 2023 @11:40AM (#37881340)
> If you can crack differentiating between "command" tokens and other input tokens, you've cracked prompt injection!

Isn't this simple? Have two different tokenizer with non-overlapping output ranges, one for “trusted commands” and one for “user input”, do training with various mixes of commands and input with the appropriate reactions to each, and then have the trusted command fixed (or selectable from a small set of preselected options/payterns based on interaction style [chat might used trusted tokens to indicate which participant each piece of the exchange is from, as well as for the internal system prompt, for instance]) for external users and allow them to freely specify only input that gets sent to the “untrusted input” tokenizer. Even if you allow pretokenized input, you can sanitize it to accept only tokens from the untrusted space.

Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by simonw on Saturday October 14, 2023 @11:54AM (#37881472)
Definitely not simple. If it was simple we would have solved it already!
Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by dragonwriter on Saturday October 14, 2023 @12:11PM (#37881644)
Always love the “there are no easy next steps from whwre we currently are, because if they were someone would already have taken them” argument.
Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by simonw on Saturday October 14, 2023 @12:15PM (#37881687)
Because it's true, right?

I'm not saying there aren't any HARD steps.

Every time I talk about prompt injection the same "surely there's an easy fix: ...." comments show up. I'm just trying to shortcut having to argue against them all again.

Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by dragonwriter on Saturday October 14, 2023 @01:42PM (#37882530)
> Because it's true, right?

No, while sometimes there are barriers that take a giant leap to cross, progress tends to involveots of steps that were simple, even if time consuming to execute, once the preceding pieces were in place.

Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by simonw on Saturday October 14, 2023 @01:54PM (#37882629)
If there genuinely is a simple solution to prompt injection that's been eluding us all for 13 months I cannot wait to learn what it is!
Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by danShumway on Saturday October 14, 2023 @07:22PM (#37885203)
After over a year of hearing people say this, at some point the burden of proof shifts to the people making the claim.

There was a period where LLMs were extremely inaccessible to train where it would have been reasonable to say "the mitigation is easy, but OpenAI hasn't done it." But nowadays, indie models and freeware models are much more common, and there are even models with open datasets. Fine tuning can be done on a Macbook. Purchasing compute to fully replicate a smaller model is within reach of a lot of people.

There is still a cost involved, it's not trivial -- but it's a lot more accessible than it used to be. So at what point is it reasonable to respond to the people saying, "it's easy, just do X" with "well, do it then."?

If the training method you're describing works, then what is preventing someone from training a 7B model over the next week that's invulnerable to prompt injection?

Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by magicalhippo on Saturday October 14, 2023 @01:03PM (#37882200)
Do you have some references (articles, blogs or similar) that illuminates why the trivial solutions won't work?

Clearly I know enough to come up with a trivial solution, but not enough to immediately see why it won't work.

Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by simonw on Saturday October 14, 2023 @01:10PM (#37882265)
I've written a lot about this myself: https://simonwillison.net/series/prompt-injection/
Re:Multi-modal prompt injection image attacks against GPT-4V by magicalhippo on Saturday October 14, 2023 @04:12PM (#37883856)
Excellent, thank you.