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Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by hcks on Friday October 13, 2023 @11:40AM (#37871824)
> ‘I was recently able to charge around twelve thousand pounds to write a two-page report for a pharmaceutical client to present during a global strategy meeting,’ he said. ‘The report wasn’t used in the end because they didn’t manage to get to that agenda point.

12k is approximately nothing to a multinational firm.

The feeling of bullshitness and alienation from corporate workers stems from the difference between what their time is worth to themselves (subjectively a lot, you only live once, etc) and what it’s worth to their employer (in $, nearly nothing to a multinational).

Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by ejb999 on Friday October 13, 2023 @11:47AM (#37871905)
>>12k is approximately nothing to a multinational firm.

True, on the otherhand, that is one person - there are probably thousands and thousands of other people, at the same company, doing the same useless tasks - many of which costs a lot more.

You could say the same thing about the project I just left - company spent $15M to develop a (free) mobile app, and after 3 years we have less than 10 users - and ZERO active users - and yet it keeps getting funded year after year for more enhancements and more millions of $$$ - and there are probably 50 or more of the same type of apps being developed by this same company - none of which have even a trivial amount of users, it is an open secret in the IT part of the company, but nobody wants to say anything, because everyone wants to keep their job.

Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by hotnfresh on Friday October 13, 2023 @11:52AM (#37871969)
I once worked at an agency and was assigned to a project for a very big athletic shoe brand to create an app for a particular smart watch (no, not that one) to integrate with a run-tracking system they were building. We also built the mobile apps for it.

We got the whole thing done. They paid a lot more than $12k for it, plus whatever else they were spending.

After it was done, but before release, they bought another company that had the same stuff already, and scrapped the whole project.

I’d say 90+% of the development work I’ve done has never made anyone any money, and almost as much has never helped a single person. It’s a weird industry.

Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by BurningFrog on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:21PM (#37872275)
Had some experiences like this at big companies, and that's a main reason I now work at small startups.

They may not always survive the year, but everything I do matters to the company.

Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by dingnuts on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:15PM (#37872206)
The app you built was a hedge against the scenario where the deal with the other company fell through. It may have not been used in the end, but it might have been used as a bargaining chip in the deal, and it definitely provided security to the business in the case that the purchase had fallen through.

I've worked on several projects that were experimental and built to validate business theories that turned out not to be true, and the projects were scrapped. Does that mean they were bullshit? No, it means the business learned something about the market with the experimental project that was never certain to begin with.

People think they have bullshit jobs because they can't see the forest for the trees, and because of that viral book & thinkpieces surrounding it -- "Bullshit Jobs" -- that went around a few years ago (and that crops up again from time to time) and has convinced them that all labor without an immediate tangible effect is pointless.

That's a dangerous thing to believe in a highly developed economy, frankly. And it's just wrong.

Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by hotnfresh on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:20PM (#37872260)
The perception matters for the worker, economy be damned, and sure, this may have had some value as you suggest—or it may have been an accident of poor coordination or internal politics and power games in the company. Tons of these things companies do aren’t for some good, rational reason. They’re just mistakes, or results of games run amok.

> Bullshit Jobs" -- that went around a few years ago (and that crops up again from time to time) and has convinced them that all labor without an immediate tangible effect is pointless.

The book version, at least, isn’t so simplistic or stupid.

Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by noelherrick on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:45PM (#37872604)
My experience has been this: if a company is funded by venture capital, my work helped zero people. If it was private/bootstrapped, somebody used and was helped by what I did, and many times was a key factor in the success of a company.
Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by ryandrake on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:36PM (#37872482)
> company spent $15M to develop a (free) mobile app, and after 3 years we have less than 10 users - and ZERO active users - and yet it keeps getting funded year after year for more enhancements and more millions of $$$

Perversely, I almost want to try working for a company where the pay is still good but the job has such low stakes. To know that there will never be a stressful fire drill in production because literally nobody uses what I make sounds almost... kind of great.

So weird that businesses are apparently totally cool with just shoveling money into a furnace like that, but hey, if I can be the guy pocketing a few bucks as the rest of it goes into the furnace... not such a bad deal.

Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by paradoxyl on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:12PM (#37872177)
This is why the elites have to be overthrown, their insane structures destroyed. They are beyond greedy, they are simply stupid. Imagine, wasting 12k on a powerpoint while people in your country starve and struggle on the street with addiction. What sort of psychpathy have you ingested?
Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by hef19898 on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:21PM (#37872276)
The one thing has nothing to do with the other so.
Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by Workaccount2 on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:12PM (#37872179)
What gets me is how my company will not even blink at a $100k loss, yet when I need a new $300 lab device because the current one has gone to shit, it's like pulling teeth to get it approved.
Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by zonethundery on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:13PM (#37872185)
I hear you, and have been in similar situations with an extra zero on the figure.

At the end of the day, the value wasn't in the memo itself but rather in making the person who asked you for it look competent to their boss ("yes, this agenda item is covered, we are ready for the meeting").

I make no normative judgment on whether or not that is bullshit.

Re:Why do so many people think they are in a bullshit job? by hotpotamus on Friday October 13, 2023 @12:30PM (#37872403)
> There are ‘flunkies’, such as administrative assistants or elevator operators, who do work solely to make other people feel more important

From the article paraphrasing Graeber's work. Seems pretty close.