I'm kind of indifferent to OS X but the Mac laptop hardware is so nice, particularly the trackpad, that I'm likely to stay an Apple customer for the foreseeable future.

<rant> Am I the only one hating especially the trackpad? I feel like it has much lower relative spatial resolution, i.e. if you set the maximum cursor speed you still have to make long motions, and the precision for some reason is far from pixel perfect.

And pixel-perfect pointing is something to be desired with those ubiquitious small controls in OSX.

In discussions like this, where serious hackers praise OSX over Windows, I feel like I have some strange disease that makes me prefer my old Toshiba U500 over new MacBook Pro sitting on my shelf. (Really want the MacBook Air but feel like I'd hate it too) </rant>

Serious hackers use the keyboard.

(Awesome WM, vim and vimium on chrome).

Joking aside, I've never found any trackpad Apple or otherwise that I could use as efficiently for pointing and clicking as even a cheap-o mouse. But gestures and scrolling are so smooth and so useful on OS X that I keep one around (even when I'm at my desk - I now keep a mouse to the right and a trackpad to the left).

It is clearly the best of both worlds.

Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? Personally I'd rather buy a laptop and a tablet (something like the transformer) rather than get something that costs twice as much or offers lower return on hardware for the same price.

Disclaimer: I am from a parallel programming background, so I am biased towards performance rather than form factor or battery life.

The last one I bought (a 13" about 18 months ago) wasn't. Yes, you could buy a Windows laptop from Dell or HP or someone for half the price, but it would have less than half the battery life, it would be larger (albeit probably not heavier; Macbooks are the densest laptops I've found) and it would have a plastic shell instead of aluminium which feels worse when new and won't age well. It would also come laden with crapware, which isn't an issue for me since I've put Linux on it anyway, but it is a big deal for most people - the majority of machines I see running badly these days are doing it because of software, not hardware.

I guess if you're coming from the perspective of maximum CPU performance per $ being the key metric, then they probably aren't a great deal, but for most people that's not really the most important thing any more.

Dell 15z: $1200 http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn

Macbook Pro: $2100 (Battery life 7hr) http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo...

15z review. Battery life: 7.5hr. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-fl...

Just saying. Used the 15z for comparison, because I think it is closest in terms of form factor.

If you are going to use linux anyway, why waste the extra $900 to buy an OS you dont use.

I like to consider the total cost of ownership when purchasing a piece of hardware, which is hard to quantify and sometimes a touchy and subjective topic but I have found Apple Computers/Laptops to substantially outlast anything from Dell or HP. I would lay down 2K for an Apple and never quibble (that much) but I would never do that for any other brand (I have just had lots of very bad and costly experiences with them....Dell in particular)

Fair shout. Like I said, I bought my last laptop 18 months ago and back then I didn't think Dell had any good options; admittedly their website is a maze of twisty laptop models and brands and price points which I may well have missed something good in. Amusingly in this case I can't see any picture of their laptop and when I leave the tab via ctrl+shift+tab it pops something up saying '9'. Very professional.

I would also observe that I'm wasting money on an operating system I don't really want on the Dell as well, although it would likely be somewhat more useful to me than OSX.

I guess that it does look like a really nice machine. I think it says something though about Dell's image as a company that I find it hard to believe they've genuinely created something that good at this point (and yes, I have owned Dell machines before; that's part of why). I guess I should probably cut them some slack...

I don't think you can get anything with an equal display at the same price point as a macbook pro.

Well I did mention two laptops 1080p (1920 x 1080) with a color depth of 24. Both bought for around $1200, with substantially better hardware than what apple offers.

What metric are you using when you say equal display ? I have two laptops that display at 1080p (no, not an external monitor, just the laptop displays themselves).

Resolution, colors.

> Aren't the macbooks over-priced ?

No? I mean is a Panasonic Toughbook C1 "overpriced"? It'll always depend on what you value and what your qualitative and quantitative metrics are.

> I mentioned my criteria

Not really.

> Return of hardware on the money investted.

That's not a criteria, it's not even fuzzy it's empty.

> To me people using macs are using them because one of the following:

Ah, so you were not actually asking a question and did not have any interest in answers. Noted.

I recently purchased a <$1000 HP laptop because I couldn't bring myself to pay the Apple tax (basically double) for similar hardware. I'm currently having a hard time with the feel of the machine. The worst part is the trackpad - multi-touch scrolling is flaky, and I either get unintended clicks or enable a "palm check" that turns off the trackpad when typing.

I'm deciding laptop ergonomics are really important (but $1000 important? cringe)

The three laptops I had before my MBP were all from different companies, ASUS, Gateway, Dell, and I hated the hardware on all of them. There was always something going on. The case didn't close right, the battery life sucked, the trackpads were awful and so itty bitty, the wifi cut in and out, the power cord needed to be jiggled just right to charge, or wouldn't charge at all unless held in place with tape just so... between the three laptops and six years there was always SOMETHING going wrong. So you could say that I originally purchased my MBP because of the hardware. I expected to install Windows on it (didn't, but that's a different story).

I swallowed the extra cost when I did the math. I use my laptop about 3000 hours a year. Day in, day out, I'm on it in some way. They usually last me 2 years or so before I get the itch to upgrade or they fail. I did the math and found that the ~$1000 laptops I bought cost me $0.003 per minute over the course of those two years. A $1300 MBP cost me $0.004 per minute. I decided that I would rather pay $0.001 more per minute to enjoy the hardware I used. I'd rather be in a rage over the fact that my code isn't doing what I want than if my battery isn't taking a charge again.

An added side benefit has been how much tougher the MBP is. I've had it for two years now and it shows no signs of needing replacement. I probably won't upgrade until I see how Apple's Retina display transitions to their laptop line. The upgrade then will probably be out of lust than necessity.

We're talking about the primary tool of our trade. I make my living using this device. If I was repairing cars again I'd be buying Snap-On. Yeah, it's expensive. But goddamnit if I break a wrench they replace it for free. The guy drives to my house and gives me demos. I don't need my tools giving me grief, I need to get work done with them.

Just my thoughts on the 'Apple tax'.

> An added side benefit has been how much tougher the MBP is. I've had it for two years now and it shows no signs of needing replacement.

MBPs are not that tough though, I've a colleague who really shouldn't be left alone with machines, his MBA (which he brings everywhere and takes little care of) did suffer quite a bit, it's horribly dirty and has quite a few dents. A Dell half the price would probably be dead already, though. But he'd probably benefit from a Toughbook C1, that's a step up in ruggedness, MB's aluminum is nice but not that solid.

FWIW I've had a (2006) macbook 1,1 since it came out (cost ~$1200 w/o applecare). In the same time, I bought an HP (consumer targeted, ~$800), resold it out of frustration with the trackpad and got a Dell Precision M4500 (refurb _and_ $20% off coupon brought it down to ~$900 w/ 3 year service contract). The Dell was awesome with a mouse, but the trackpad was still basically useless, and the intellipoint wasn't nearly as comfortable as the macbook's trackpad, so here I am, back on the macbook for the foreseeable future.

All that to say the trackpad, keyboard, keyboard controls for display brightness, and (my experience, obviously not common) battery longevity do seem to be worth the money. There's a ton of weird little pieces that apple really gets right that don't show up on the spec sheets.

But what about the battery life under linux? Have you experienced any kind of problems with that?

I'd be interested to know this as well - are you experiencing decent batt life dual booting into Linux on your macbooks/airs?