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Re:Who Runs the Best U.S. Schools? It May Be the Defense Dep... by rayiner on Thursday October 12, 2023 @10:48PM (#37865980)
> As the root comment pointed out - we already know that you improve outcomes by excluding low performers.

That’s not quite the point. By excluding low performers, you can improve the outcomes of the other kids, beyond what would be possible by mixing everyone together. So you can achieve a net societal improvement that way.

Re:Who Runs the Best U.S. Schools? It May Be the Defense Dep... by ZeroGravitas on Friday October 13, 2023 @04:02AM (#37868043)
If those excluded kids are just moved from selective charter schools to non-selective public schools then, by the same argument, they'll be reducing the outcomes of the non-disruptive kids who don't have parents involved enough to take advantage of the system.

So unless these charter schools have a side business selling Soylent Green made from disruptive pupils and those with learning disabilities, they're not actually improving overall results.

Re:Who Runs the Best U.S. Schools? It May Be the Defense Dep... by aeturnum on Friday October 13, 2023 @01:36PM (#37873246)
> By excluding low performers, you can improve the outcomes of the other kids

Isn't this is what the root comment is saying? I did not summarize the entire thing but that was my understanding of its point.

> you can achieve a net societal improvement that way.

You can improve the outcomes of the non-low-performers, but it's hard to say it's a "net societal improvement" because the low performers are also part of society.

Re:Who Runs the Best U.S. Schools? It May Be the Defense Dep... by brightlancer on Saturday October 14, 2023 @04:31PM (#37884006)
> You can improve the outcomes of the non-low-performers, but it's hard to say it's a "net societal improvement" because the low performers are also part of society.

That depends on the improvement vs loss -- IME, it is a net improvement.

With 100 students, 5 are disruptive, verbally abusive, maybe physically violent. How much does that 5% bring down the other 95%? If we remove that 5% from the other 95%, how much does the 5% lose versus the 95% gain?

IME, the gains in the 95% are miles ahead of the losses in the 5%, which makes it's net improvement.