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Re:'Empires of the Steppes' by Kenneth W. Harl Review by lmm on Monday October 09, 2023 @11:26PM (#37828199)
> From the pastoralist's point of view their hunting grounds are being raided by agriculturalists.

True up to a point, but the agriculturalists are able to support far more human flourishing on the same land - hence why they won the fight. And AIUI for much of the time when both existed and were in conflict, the pastoralists were essentially parasitic on the agriculturalists (in that they were taking more by raiding than they would ever have gained through hunting).

> And it is states -- which are without exception agricultural socieities -- that are responsible for the vast majority of human slavery in history.

Formal, documented slavery perhaps - but that's because those are the only societies with formal, documented anything. How much choice do people in those societies have of what kind of work to do, much less not to work? How much choice do women have of who to marry, much less not to marry (and how much choice of how they're treated within that marriage)? Of course you can choose not to follow the customs of your tribe, but at that point how much protection is there for your property or even your life?

Re:'Empires of the Steppes' by Kenneth W. Harl Review by thriftwy on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @03:52AM (#37829539)
Are you seriously conflating getting all of your relatives killed in a raid and you being captured to be shipped overseas to be treated like an animal for the rest of your life - with getting married within the commnunity where you were born and raised??
Re:'Empires of the Steppes' by Kenneth W. Harl Review by lmm on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @07:23PM (#37839061)
Forced marriage is generally recognised as slavery, and very common even today, and in many of these communities everyone was de facto forced to marry.
Re:'Empires of the Steppes' by Kenneth W. Harl Review by thriftwy on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @05:45AM (#37842559)
And every man, too.

If you conflate these two options, though, it does not make sense to discuss anything with you.

Re:'Empires of the Steppes' by Kenneth W. Harl Review by corsac on Tuesday October 10, 2023 @04:07AM (#37829611)
Population density != human flourishing.

>> hence why they won the fight.

More likely, they won because there were always far more of them, and Eurasian trade shifted from the "silk road" to the oceans.

>> those are the only societies with formal, documented anything

You can't be serious.