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Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by bumby on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @04:56PM (#37757456)
This might be confusing my point.

The initial goal of drug laws may be in the vein of stabilizing society, while poor implementation strays from that goal. Both can be true at the same time. Poor implementation begs for better implementation, not the nullification of the goal. I am not defending current drug policies, I'm guarding against the notion that the "solution" is just to make consensual crime legal.

This side-steps a relevant discussion about how you measure societal stability, but that would be a long digression to itself.

Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by vlovich123 on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @05:15PM (#37757678)
AFAIK the drug laws the US deals with today primarily stem from the “Drug War” which was politically motivated to target Nixon’s “enemies” (blacks and anti-war activists):

> Americans have been criminalizing psychoactive substances since San Francisco’s anti-opium law of 1875, but it was Ehrlichman’s boss, Richard Nixon, who declared the first “War on Drugs” in 1971 and set the country on the wildly punitive and counterproductive path it still pursues.

> [Ehrlichman, Nixon’s advisor for domestic affairs] “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or blacks, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-st...

Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by blq10 on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @06:24PM (#37758456)
Ehh, sort of.

The congressional black caucus were ardent supporters of the war on drugs https://www.wnyc.org/story/312823-black-leaders-once-champio...

So I'm pretty sure that whatever motivation Nixon had, the Black community in the United States wasn't a big fan of drugs and wanted them gone.

Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by yterdy on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @09:02PM (#37759659)
There's a difference between not being a big fan of drugs and wanting the onerous law enforcement and incarceratorial regime which was eventually implemented. Without much meaningful input from the CBC, I imagine. Your "Ehh, sort of," is quite weak. Going back to marijuana, opiate, and even alcohol prohibition policies, drug laws have always been more about controlling the conjured threat of minority populations than anything else.
Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by blq10 on Saturday October 07, 2023 @03:58AM (#37799908)
Again, the Black congressional representatives (which, due to districting were mostly representing Black people) were rather openly upset with him...for not going even harder.

That is difficult to square with Nixonian plot to use the carceral apparatus to keep Black people from gaining power.

I guess it does track with revisionism to make anything we currently disagree with to be a product of original sin.

Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by bumby on Saturday October 07, 2023 @04:12PM (#37805125)
I had never heard of prohibition as a tactic to oppress racial minorities. It seems like you’re trying to shoehorn a narrative.

“nearly every major Black abolitionist and civil rights leader before World War I—from Frederick Douglass, Martin Delany and Sojourner Truth to F.E.W. Harper, Ida B. Wells, W.E.B. Du Bois, and Booker T. Washington—endorsed temperance and prohibition.”

Hardly the group I would associate with oppressing minorities.

[1] https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/02/06/forgotten-...

Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by yterdy on Wednesday October 11, 2023 @01:01PM (#37847079)
>I had never heard of prohibition as a tactic to oppress racial minorities.

Not everyone who is white today was white 100 years ago.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=prohibition+anti+immigrant

Take your pick.

Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by standardUser on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @05:31PM (#37757848)
I would just add that, based on the prevalence of drug use and abuse in this country, the increasing availability and increasingly reduced cost of illicit drugs, combined with the exceptionally high rate of incarceration and probation compared to other wealthy nations (and even non-wealthy nations), we are clearly doing something spectacularly wrong. And this wrong approach is costing us billions upon billions of wasted dollars, not to mention the cost in human lives and livelihoods. No alternatives should be off the table.
Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by nikhizzle on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @06:21PM (#37758438)
Just want to say that your comments in this thread are excellent synthesis of a quality I rarely find. You should blog if you don’t already.
Re:Predictive Policing Software Is Pretty Terrible at Predic... by babymode on Tuesday October 03, 2023 @05:17PM (#37757703)
agreed that the discussion about how you measure or even define social stability is probably what's really at stake in this discussion. Policing and the concept of criminality provide a kind of 'stability' in the form of social control to governments. On the other hand, those same forces can be incredibly destabilising to the social lives of everyone who is criminalised, their families and friends, especially given that criminalisation for so many people is often a death sentence.

The other thing I'd like to just bring up is that the either/or between criminalising/not criminalising drugs can sometimes miss that there are many creative, diverse and humanising responses to problematic drug use that don't depend on control via the threat of punishment