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Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by AnthonBerg on Sunday October 01, 2023 @02:41PM (#37729054)
The un-cited Cochrane review in question does not say that.

From Cochrane.org:

Statement on 'Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce ... - Cochrane

Mar 10, 2023

Many commentators have claimed that a recently-updated Cochrane Review shows that 'masks don't work', which is an inaccurate and misleading interpretation. It would be accurate to say that the review examined whether interventions to promote mask wearing help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses, and that the results were inconclusive.

Repeating the important part:

the review examined whether interventions to promote mask wearing help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses

Conversely, here’s a good study that shows that consistent use of FFP3 respirator masks drastically reduced transmission among workers on a hospital ward: https://elifesciences.org/articles/71131

Note that the study only had the workers wearing FFP3 masks on shifts, and community transmission was high at the time. Therefore the study “leaked” and good masks work better than the numbers in the study might seem to indicate. Face-fitting masks do work, and very well. Of course they do. It’s all very clear if you dig into the aerosol physics.

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by sokoloff on Sunday October 01, 2023 @03:32PM (#37729647)
It looks like FFP3 are analogous to N99 masks.

A mask mandate that permits "wrap a piece of T-shirt over your mouth, some of the time, sometimes even covering your nose" (which is not far from what I saw for much of 2020) is, unsurprisingly, going to be more effective at ensuring grudging compliance with a mandate than it is to reduce the spread of an airborne virus.

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by sfblah on Sunday October 01, 2023 @03:57PM (#37729952)
This is the problem with mask absolutists. They take data from masks that are super effective (hospital setting, correct usage, basically gluing the mask to your face) and extrapolate it to some guy on the subway with a cloth mask. It’s a bad way to make public policy, and I don’t really understand the motivation behind it.
Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by AnthonBerg on Sunday October 01, 2023 @05:05PM (#37730776)
I am not a mask absolutist.

Close family is at risk of severe illness or death from COVID. We provide for a small child. We do not have much margin.

I’d like to ask you to imagine the social repercussions of masking. It’s hard. I do not want to be weird. I do not want to be an outcast, practically speaking. I don’t want to wear a mask.

I just don’t have any margin in the other direction.

Also:

What is it about a hospital setting that makes a given type of mask more effective?

Answer: Nothing.

Hospitals are places where it’s easier to run a trial, and where it’s harder to avoid infection.

Face-fitting masks do not require glue. Fitting a mask isn’t that hard.

Cloth masks don’t work and never did.

The objective is to not die or be maimed by a virulent pathogen, or rather: to have the option. Clarity on effective means for those who want it. I want effective means because I need them. The objective is not social classification of mask wearers or categorization of discussion types or labeling people as cartoons.

The objective is clear information as input into serious personal decision-making. The guy on the subway is not in scope.

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by sokoloff on Sunday October 01, 2023 @05:10PM (#37730841)
I think hospital workers experience with wearing masks (and the resulting "they have chosen a mask size and from experience have adjusted the mask to make it comfortable and effective") and the ability for the hospital to prohibit facial hair in their workers that's incompatible with effective mask use are key differences between hospital staff and Joe/Jane Public on the streets.

In terms of being weird: there are enough people wearing masks and most people literally care more about what they're going to have for dinner than whether or not you're wearing a mask. If a mask helps your family, don't worry about the epsilon weird aspect (as I'm sure you have already calculated).

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by AnthonBerg on Sunday October 01, 2023 @05:41PM (#37731151)
Well said. Thank you.

I think I can also pretty decisively say that hospital purchasing optimizations give face-fitting masks a bad rap. The FFP2 masks that hospital staff wear here are cheap and very uncomfortable. This bleeds into society as a negative view.

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by sfblah on Sunday October 01, 2023 @06:06PM (#37731374)
Occam's razor here is that your interest in masks is a mental illness, and not because someone in your family is so immunocompromised or whatever that the mask is standing between that person and certain death. Is it possible that the latter is the case? Maybe. But in my view almost all cases of people stubbornly wearing masks are just psychiatric in nature.

I know my comment will just make you angry, because "you're different". But, maybe someone else will see it and consider their psychological state on this topic.

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by AnthonBerg on Sunday October 01, 2023 @06:24PM (#37731559)
I wish upon you severe illness and the humility to deal with the repercussions to your worldview, and happiness.

I wish for your life to be long and healthy; and the lives of your loved ones too. And in that, let me give you advice to trade for your judgement of my place in life and my actions and sacrifices and loss. The advice is this:

Read. The academic. Literature.

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by kbelder on Monday October 02, 2023 @12:30PM (#37740496)
I know a family who still wears masks in public because their daughter is very sick, very weak, and they don't want to risk her getting covid. Perfectly sensible. I also know people who wear masks in public because they're a little nuts... just can't let go, or politically or psychologically hung up.

So what can you say? You see a stranger wearing a mask, you don't know if it's for a good reason or not. Probably the odds are that it's an emotional or psychological hangup, but it may be for a really good reason. So you need to just shrug and let people do what they think best for themselves. They're the ones responsible for themselves.

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by AnthonBerg on Sunday October 01, 2023 @04:58PM (#37730698)
Precisely.
Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by sfblah on Sunday October 01, 2023 @03:59PM (#37729969)
I would encourage readers to read the “Main results” section of the review for themselves. It takes under 5 minutes. Don’t trust a commenter on any online forum on this topic (myself included), as it’s completely politicized.
Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by AnthonBerg on Sunday October 01, 2023 @04:57PM (#37730685)
Also read the studies themselves.

And the criticism of the Cochrane-method review.

And the studies not cited.

As well as the studies on the mechanics of transmission.

Re:How Many Microbes Does It Take to Make You Sick? by sfblah on Sunday October 01, 2023 @06:08PM (#37731387)
I think people can rely on the authors to put the main results in the "Main results" section. What they can't rely on is potential nutters in Internet forums.