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A comment on Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression. Parent comment

Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by SamoyedFurFluff on Monday September 25, 2023 @06:51AM (#37641794)
I wouldn’t attribute this to immigration. Generally immigrants are job creators and entrepreneurs, and take less from the system than native born people do. I otherwise agree the homeowning NIMBY class who want to retain neighborhood character or whatever suck, because as a consequence they are restricting housing. I also want to point the finger at corporations that buy up housing as an investment; there’s no reason any Corp should be buying up residential family housing and bleeding people dry through rents.
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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by lm28469 on Monday September 25, 2023 @07:05AM (#37641911)
> Generally immigrants are job creators and entrepreneurs, and take less from the system than native born people do

I don't want to generalise things, but since you're doing it yourself:

In France migrants and descendant of migrants are between 50% and 100% more unemployed than the rest of the population.

They also represent 28% of social spending despite being 12% of the population

https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/6793274?sommaire=679339....

https://www.marianne.net/economie/economie-francaise/le-vrai...

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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by loup-vaillant on Monday September 25, 2023 @07:27AM (#37642106)
Be very careful how you frame things. Here’s another framing:

1. Migrants and their descendants are poorer than average.

2. Social spending is higher among poor people, because that’s the whole point.

3. Disproportionately poor people represent a disproportionate amount of social spending, duh.

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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by lm28469 on Monday September 25, 2023 @08:02AM (#37642376)
Sure, but we're a far cry from most migrants being "job creators and entrepreneurs"

The reality is that a lot of them struggle to find jobs, and a lot of them end up working illegally for unscrupulous bosses. And yes there are a whole lot of reasons for that, but at the end of the day it's the reality we have to deal with

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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by fisf on Monday September 25, 2023 @11:16AM (#37645210)
That's not a framing issue. The original claim was

> Generally immigrants are job creators and entrepreneurs, and take less from the system than native born people do

And this is (at least in the context of many European countries) not true.

It is not relevant if this is simply because they are poor, and poor people receive a disproportionate amount of social spending.

The observation is that immigration in that case drives up housing demand, while at the same time being a net-negative in financial terms for society.

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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by loup-vaillant on Monday September 25, 2023 @12:06PM (#37646157)
When someone points out that a segment of the population is more disenfranchised than the rest, and then unnecessarily states that they represent a disproportionate share of social/welfare spending, it’s hard to ignore how the unnecessary statement, wittingly or not, pushes an agenda. Just like my framing did, though I totally did it on purpose.

That being said, I would be interested to know if the social spending stay disproportional after controlling for socio-economic factors. I personally have no idea, as far as I know immigrants could be either under- or over-funded. And if they are, it could be interesting to investigate why.

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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by api on Monday September 25, 2023 @07:27AM (#37642104)
The same is not true in the US. It’s probably a cultural difference. Anyone can come to America and become American, but if you are not French it’s pretty damn hard to become French. Migrants can’t integrate as easily so they become an underemployed class.
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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by carlosjobim on Monday September 25, 2023 @09:31AM (#37643495)
"Integration" is mostly myth when it comes to people from different cultures. Does anybody ask the question if the immigrants to France actually want to integrate? Did immigrants to America want to integrate with the native people there?
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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by jongjong on Monday September 25, 2023 @07:05AM (#37641916)
The other side of the coin is that locals increasingly have to compete with immigrants who are put into desperate positions (as a result of having less bargaining power) and therefore willing to accept lower wages which drives down wages for locals too.

In effect, the desperation of immigrants spreads to the locals. To the locals who are used to a certain way of life, it's quite a shock that they now have to go to extreme lengths just to make ends meet.

Even immigrants who eventually manage to become citizens after several years, eventually find themselves forced to compete with the next wave of even more desperate immigrants.

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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by TapWaterBandit on Monday September 25, 2023 @07:00AM (#37641882)
Immigration is clearly an undeniable part of the problem. I am in Australia and when immigration was halted during covid rents declined in many places, often substantially. Now we are full-tilt on immigration again and rents are soaring. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that putting more people in a given area with the same amount of housing will cause the rents to rise.
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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by addicted on Monday September 25, 2023 @07:06AM (#37641925)
It was clearly the immigration because there was nothing else going on at the time that could explain the changes.
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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by infairverona on Monday September 25, 2023 @07:23AM (#37642066)
What a weird way to shot gun an otherwise reasonable argument with the worst example possible.
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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by ejb999 on Monday September 25, 2023 @06:57AM (#37641849)
Just keep telling yourself that... NYC would strongly disagree.

When you let 5-10 million +/- people into the country in a short amount of time - where are they supposed to live? Of course it drives up homelessness and home prices - use your common sense.

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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by addicted on Monday September 25, 2023 @07:08AM (#37641944)
NYC also had the same housing stock in 2020 as in 2000.

Despite adding several Boston’s worth of population at the time.

So I’m not sure it’s as simple as arguing it’s only the demand side when clearly the supply side hasn’t kept up.

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Re:Baby boomers are becoming homeless at a rate not seen sin... by TinkersW on Monday September 25, 2023 @01:37PM (#37647646)
That stat is made up because they ding natives for the cost of K12 education etc, thus making them look worse by comparison because they start out with a big negative value assigned to them.
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