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Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by lmkg on Saturday March 24, 2012 @02:10AM (#3748654)
Standardized tests are optimized for grading.

They are designed to be evaluated quickly, and objectively. Scantrons can be graded mechanically, and these essays described in the article can be graded with no thought and a minimum of judgment. These goals, efficiency and objectivity, impose constraints on how you can test competence, and as far as I can tell those constraints are simply insurmountable.

I have taken one and exactly one category of standardized test that I respected, and that was the AP tests. The essay questions for AP Lit was graded by having three English teachers read the essay and evaluate whether your answer indicated you understood the meaning of the passage, and how it relates to the work as a whole. In other words, it was done the hard way. And it was better than any other standardized test I've ever taken at correlating performance with understanding.

The problem is scale. Scaling is the only advantage of the current form of tests, and that's enough. Any replacement is going to have to address scaling.

(My hare-brained solution: Grading essays is what teachers do over summer vacation. It's enough excess labor to remove that design constraints.)

Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by mattwrench on Saturday March 24, 2012 @02:44AM (#3748710)
Rather than worry about scaling, why not get rid of the essay sections completely? I have an issue with standardized tests basically setting public school curriculum, but most of the essays I remember didn't even do that (and based on the OP's piece, these essays aren't testing writing ability either.)

I recall the (Texas) essay prompts used to be incredibly vague and had nothing to do with what we were learning in class at the time. Prompts like "Write about a time you overcame a challenge" come to mind. Back then, I assumed they were just testing our ability to communicate ideas to an audience, but really all they wanted was the default 5-paragraph essay. It was little more than fill-in-the-blanks to this outline, rather than actual writing.

What made the AP Literature and Rhetoric tests so good was that everything we learned in class was applicable to them. Obviously, my teachers took time to explicitly practice the AP essays, but every other activity also helped feed my knowledge of the subject that I could use to answer the essays on the AP test. Other standardized test essays just seem to be antithetical to any possible purpose.

Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by sliverstorm on Saturday March 24, 2012 @03:31AM (#3748786)
>Grading essays is what teachers do over summer vacation

One of the few perks of being a teacher is the extra vacation time compared to the rest of us. Cutting into that, with the typically already-poor wages, doesn't seem like a good plan.

Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by yummyfajitas on Saturday March 24, 2012 @07:53AM (#3749143)
Teacher wages are not that low. I do some math here, read the whole thread (I made an error in my initial post).

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1673075

Teachers also have many perks - summer vacation, minimal accountability, defined-benefit pensions, etc. In fact, a rather significant chunk of teacher's comp is perks, not pay, far more so than most people in the private sector.

Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by rdl on Saturday March 24, 2012 @08:07AM (#3749157)
And in-district status for their children, even if they live out of district. For a parent of 3 children living in EPA or San Jose or something, working as a teacher in Palo Alto saves basically $20k x 3 post-tax every year, vs. going to a comparable private school.

(which is why I think "people sneaking into schools with fake residence addresses" should be punished; if they're trying to send their children to another district, it should be by making a sacrifice and working in the district, vs. indirectly taxing everyone who lives in that district)

Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by wisty on Saturday March 24, 2012 @11:29AM (#3749587)
> minimal accountability

Name any job other than "Congressman" in which a single nude photo of you will put you name in the tabloids and end your career.

Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by Androsynth on Saturday March 24, 2012 @12:47PM (#3749829)
Thats an extreme case. The problem, is that after a certain point in your career it will take nothing short of that nude photo to get a teacher fired. No matter how ineffective or incompetent they are.
Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by wisty on Saturday March 24, 2012 @06:00PM (#3750887)
Teachers still have a ton of accountability. They aren't necessarily accountable to be good teachers, but there's a lot of stuff they are accountable to do. There's usually a lot of paperwork and all kinds of requirements.
Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by acdha on Saturday March 24, 2012 @01:41PM (#3750004)
Agreed: My wife is a teacher and I'm not sure I'd describe it as extra vacation rather than compensation for the unpaid overtime during the school school year, particularly since teachers have a very rigid schedule.
Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by CookWithMe on Saturday March 24, 2012 @06:37AM (#3749043)
> The problem is scale.

And not only for grading, but for teaching as a whole. There is just no smart solution for educating children at a larger scale - we have to do "brute force". The less children per teacher, the better.

(Different story for adults who can autodidact, I guess, but even at universities the student / prof ratio is important).

Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by ippisl on Saturday March 24, 2012 @02:38PM (#3750203)
I'm not sure that's the case.

One example of a teacher scaling is khan academy. I think that something like khan academy could have been done even before the internet, even with VCR's. And automated practice(in math) using computers was available when i was a kid and we even used it through grade 6 , but in grade 7 when we moved to another school we stopped using it.

I think the problem is more due to the fact that the teaching profession is conservative(mostly as a way to maintain power, which is not unique to teaching by any means).

Re:'A Test You Need to Fail': A Teacher's Open Letter to Her... by read_wharf on Saturday March 24, 2012 @04:57AM (#3748891)
"Standardized tests are optimized for grading."

And there's the money quote.