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Re:Decoupling isn't phoney – The global trading system is st... by dgb23 on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @12:00PM (#37324097)
What's the rationale behind this? Why specifically China?
Re:Decoupling isn't phoney – The global trading system is st... by soligern on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @12:02PM (#37324129)
Too much dependency on a soft enemy?
Re:Decoupling isn't phoney – The global trading system is st... by hayst4ck on Thursday August 31, 2023 @01:24AM (#37332793)
A lot of the American state department, particularly the liberal side, had a belief that as poor subsistence farmers were lifted out of poverty and as China got more money, education, and resources, that china would liberalize and its citizens would want freedom. There was a braintrust that thought democracy was an inevitable result of capitalism and industrialization, an idea which is largely now kaput. There is coming to be an understanding that if you want democracy, you have to do something to get it (or keep it). Rituals, like voting, don't make you a democracy if voting does not have substance. Two countries with a McDonalds can have a war.

The Chinese re-colonization of Hong Kong (you can go talk to people from Hong Kong and see how they feel about Chinese actions in Hong Kong, if you think I am being hyperbolic) and Xi Xinping's ascension to emperor made it clear that China is an ideological enemy. The Chinese warmongering over Taiwan and the fact that China has become a single point of failure in our supply lines, particularly for PPE has also been quite the wake up call. China's lack of interest in investigating COVID also did not help.

The south china sea and disputed islands with japan are also very much angering countries in Asia who would prefer a "rules based international order" to one where they must pay fealty to China.

We have a colonial history with the phillipines and to some degree they are owed, if not for history, they are owed because of our state departments rhetric about "rules based international orders" instead of "spheres of influence". Taiwan and South Korea are both countries that America could not really do business without. Japan is likely America's closest ally and when no offensive army was made part of their constitution, to some degree that was America making a promise to defend Japan [against China and Russia]. Vietnam is as angry as Philippines over China's south china sea excursions.

The end result is that china is telling us we are an enemy, and our politicians are listening. Xi is beating his chest saying "Asia is our playground, Asia is our sphere of influence" and that is making our allies nervous.

I personally think war is inevitable. The only way war is not inevitable is if china (or ourselves) can be stretched to domestic failure and that can be catalyst for war itself. I think it can be avoided if Xi is ousted by a more liberal leader.

If you think war is inevitable, if your "enemy" is repeatedly saying "we will wage a war of domination against a relatively weak country because we can," what options do you have except to start looking at your supply lines and say "what is our exposure"?

I really can't stress how important China's actions in Hong Kong were. Before China erased rule of law in Hong Kong violating international agreements, there was a lot of suspicion about anti-chinese rhetoric being used to whip up American nationalism, especially regarding Uighers and Organ harvesting. After Hong Kong there is not much doubt any more that China really is evil by western standards and really does want to practice old-world imperialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Strait_relations

> On 10 June 2022, China's Defence Minister Wei Fenghe warned the United States that "if anyone dares to split Taiwan from China, the Chinese army will definitely not hesitate to start a war no matter the cost."[120] Wei further stated that the PLA "would have no choice but to fight … and crush any attempt of Taiwanese independence, safeguarding national sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Should Russia get its way in Ukraine and China get its way in Taiwan, just because they have bigger armies? Nobody believe russia was going to invade Ukraine until it happened, even after they literally did it in Crimea. Hong Kong was China's Crimea.

Re:Decoupling isn't phoney – The global trading system is st... by proudeu on Thursday August 31, 2023 @07:12AM (#37335402)
Probably old fashioned Anglo-Saxon feeling of superiority and fear that world order where white Anglo Saxons dominate markets and geopolitical landscape goes away forever
Re:Decoupling isn't phoney – The global trading system is st... by jpgvm on Saturday September 02, 2023 @11:41PM (#37367521)
Because Americans need a bad guy for their political system to function.