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Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by AnthonyMouse on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:24PM (#37299180)
> this is subtle: you can easily rack up 5-6 figure damage numbers from unauthorized security research, but Fizz was so small and new that I'm assuming nobody even contemplating retaining a forensics firm or truing things up with their insurers, who probably did not exist

This seems like a problem with the existing law, if that's how it works.

It puts the amount of "damages" in the hands of the "victim" who can choose to spend arbitrary amounts of resources (trivial in the scope of a large bureaucracy but large in absolute amount), providing a perverse incentive to waste resources in order to vindictively trigger harsh penalties against an imperfect actor whose true transgression was to embarrass them.

And it improperly assigns the cost of such measures, even to the extent that they're legitimate, to the person who merely brought their attention to the need for them. If you've been operating a publicly available service with a serious vulnerability you still have to go through everything and evaluate the scope of the compromise regardless of whether or not this person did anything inappropriate, in case someone else did. The source of that cost was their own action in operating a vulnerable service -- they should still be incurring it even if they discovered the vulnerability themselves, but not before putting it in production.

The damages attributable to the accused should be limited to the damage they actually caused, for example by using access to obtain customer financial information and committing credit card fraud.

Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by tptacek on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:32PM (#37299297)
A forensics investigation is usually required by insurers. It's not an arbitrary amount of money, it's just an amount you're not happy with. I understand why you feel that way, but it's not the way the law works.
Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by AnthonyMouse on Monday August 28, 2023 @03:39PM (#37299390)
Services can negotiate the terms of their insurance contract or even choose whether or not to carry insurance. They agree to these terms and know the implications, and again, if the need for the investigation is legitimate then they should be conducting it regardless of how the vulnerability is uncovered.

> it's not the way the law works.

Which is problematic.

Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by woah on Monday August 28, 2023 @04:18PM (#37299890)
> This seems like a problem with the existing law, if that's how it works.

> I understand why you feel that way, but it's not the way the law works.

OP was saying they don't think the law should work that way.

Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by tptacek on Monday August 28, 2023 @04:27PM (#37299993)
Wait'll they learn about the Eggshell Skull Rule.
Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by AnthonyMouse on Monday August 28, 2023 @06:42PM (#37301322)
This is more in the neighborhood of contributory negligence.
Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by singleshot_ on Monday August 28, 2023 @07:43PM (#37301729)
Strange things happen every day but in my experience the jury decides on the damages, not the plaintiff.
Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday August 29, 2023 @02:01AM (#37303992)
We're talking about which rule the law should intend to be used, not who applies the rule.
Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by singleshot_ on Tuesday August 29, 2023 @12:23PM (#37310225)
You were talking about both but you were mistaken about the rule as well. Your focus on causation suggests you’re struggling with the idea that a second order event stemming from a breach could be compensatory damages, but of course it would fall within consequential damages if causation was found to be sufficiently attenuated.
Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by AnthonyMouse on Tuesday August 29, 2023 @12:28PM (#37310283)
You're just misreading the post. The "victim" doesn't calculate the damages, but a rule that makes the damages depend on actions the corporation voluntarily chooses to take allows them to vindictively maximize the penalties on someone who merely embarrassed them. Which is a perverse incentive that should be removed.
Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by singleshot_ on Tuesday August 29, 2023 @07:53PM (#37315777)
Yeah, I guess you’re right. It would be more fair to the defendant to let him specify the damages. After all, he is the only one who knows what harm he intended to inflict. Without that knowledge, how could we establish causation?
Re:When your classmates threaten you with felony charges by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday August 30, 2023 @03:16AM (#37318678)
If you leave the door open to your building and some kids get in and spray paint graffiti on the walls and steal the building manager's library book, you pretty clearly have damages in the amount of the cost to clean the graffiti and the cost of the library book.

If you then go spend $50,000 to pay a contractor to sweep the building for bugs on the off chance the kids were actually Russian spies, that's on you for leaving the door open. Even if you have a legitimate fear of Russian spies.

Likewise, if the way you clean the graffiti is not to pay someone $50 to paint over it but to bring in a demolition crew to implode the whole building and then build an identical one in its place at the cost of a million dollars, this was your choosing and not the doing of the miscreants.