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Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by lordfrito on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:33PM (#37180934)
OK so dumb guy here needs someone to explain this chart I keep seeing and not understanding. [1]

It shows average temperatures month by month, peaking in summer months, cooler in winter months. As expected.

Except that the graph says this is a global mean temperature, not just the northern hemisphere.

I would expect that the earth, on average, from north pole to equator to south pole, would, on average day, have about the same mean temperature, as it gets the same amount of total sunlight overall, regardless of the tilt of the earth. We're essentially on a sphere, and it gets the same sunlight coverage even though some points get more light than others.

I mean it's not like the earth gets less overall sun just because it's winter in the north.

So for whatever reason the entire earth is warmer when the northern hemisphere is experiencing summer? Am I interpreting that right? How is that possible, and what am I failing to take into account?

Does it have something to do with the elliptical orbit of the earth, and possibly that our closest yearly approach to the sun just happens to align with summer months in the northern hemisphere?

[1] https://media.nature.com/lw767/magazine-assets/d41586-023-02...

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by deredede on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:42PM (#37181053)
From what I remember, this is because there is more land in the northern hemisphere and more ocean in the southern hemisphere, and water has better thermal capacity than soil.
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by bad_alloc on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:39PM (#37181021)
> Am I interpreting that right?

Yes.

> How is that possible, and what am I failing to take into account?

There are factors like that most of the landmass is in the northern hemisphere, we are in a strong El Nino, ships have to burn fuel with less sulphur and so on. Right now the factors involved are unclear but there is an unsettling possibility: The Earths climate might drastically and quickly change at so called tipping points, after which a new balance becomes the norm. This new balance may or may not be hospitable or even habitable for us.

> Does it have something to do with the elliptical orbit of the earth, and possibly that our closest yearly approach to the sun just happens to align with summer months in the northern hemisphere?

Nope, our orbit is very round and if this was a major factor we'd see it in historic data.

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by hattmall on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:40PM (#37181038)
2x the landmass is in northern hemisphere, so there's less moderation from evaporation in NH summer.
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by lordfrito on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:45PM (#37181086)
OK the landmass thing a few people pointed out. I can buy into this, but it's still a bit confusing.

What does 'moderation' mean? The solar energy has to go somewhere, I'm assuming that's temperature. Are you saying it's not going into temperature, but instead being stored some otherway (like evaporation causing an increase in potential energy as the molecules rise?).

To me it's a question of energy input from sun - energy reflected and radiated out. Something like

   temperature = constant * (energy from sun - energy reflected - energy radiated)
Maybe the earth reflects more energy due to more water / less land in the southern hemisphere?
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by jameshart on Friday August 18, 2023 @04:29PM (#37181669)
It's not

  temperature = constant * (energy from sun - energy reflected - energy radiated)
Temperature is precisely what leads to 'energy radiated' after all (see: black body emission).

Temperature is not 'the leftover energy'. The Earth is broadly in equilibrium.

It's more like

  delta_temperature = constant * (energy from sun - energy reflected - energy radiated)
Any imbalance between energy in and energy out is what manifests as increase or decrease in global temperature.

This Veritasium video gives a good idea of what we do get from the sun, if not 'net energy in': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxL2HoqLbyA

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by Retric on Friday August 18, 2023 @04:26PM (#37181623)
This is more complicated than you can get into with a few comments but your basic assumptions are incorrect.

First you’re assuming there’s a linear relationship this is false. Also, X energy always moves from X to Y temperature, this is false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat_capacity

Also it seems like energy reflected radiated should be a constant or even a direct function of temperature, this is also false.

Thermodynamics is complicated, but earth is more so because energy moves around quite a bit. Wind and ocean currents move enormous quantities of energy around.

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by MooMooMilkParty on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:52PM (#37181194)
There is actually an energy cost to evaporation which takes some of that energy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_vaporization

So, this, as well as ocean mixing is how the surface temperature is "moderated", in addition to the heat capacity that others have brought up.

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by lordfrito on Friday August 18, 2023 @05:09PM (#37182143)
Aha thank you this was my eureka moment. I remember from high school chemistry the idea that temperature stays constant when energy input goes to phase change.

So in the southern hemisphere with that much water, some of the energy goes into the phase change between water/steam. Much less so in the northern hemisphere.

Thank god we have these big thermal sinks (ice/water) to hold a lot of this energy to keep temp a little more stable.

Follow up question: I'm assuming the exact same thing applies with ice->water. So some of the energy hitting the earth is going into melting the ice instead of increasing temperature. It would seem to follow that, once all the sea ice and glaciers have melted, that this phase-change effect is removed, and therefore the temperatures will increase faster as none of the excess energy is going into ice->water phase-change?

Do they predict the temperature rise to increase once all of the sea ice and glaciers have melted?

Or maybe once it's water it just means that there is that much more liquid water available to evaporate into humidity?

Also, anyone know how the Canadian wildfires impacting the equation? Is that a potential explanation for the several sigma deviation this year?

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by 20after4 on Friday August 18, 2023 @09:38PM (#37184581)
> It would seem to follow that, once all the sea ice and glaciers have melted, > that this phase-change effect is removed, and therefore the temperatures > will increase faster as none of the excess energy is going into ice->water > phase-change?

Yes, and it's even worse than that. The ice also reflects and awful lot of energy back into space due to being highly reflective. When that the ice is gone, that exposes darker surface which is a lot less reflective. That will also result in lot more heating.

The more things warm up, the more things will warm up in a vicious cycle with many positive feedback loops. Sadly a lot of it seems irreversible at this point.

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by soco on Monday August 21, 2023 @05:32AM (#37207180)
More desert dust being carried at higher altitudes - Himalayas, Alps - is also increasing the darkness aka heating of the glacier surfaces, thus speeding their melting...
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by AmpsterMan on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:52PM (#37181187)
It's more that every substance has a specific heat capacity. That is, how much energy it takes to raise 1 g of that substance one degree Celsius.

Water happens to have some of the highest specific heat capacities. Therefore, the south can "store" more energy in the hot months, and release that same energy in the cool months better than the north can

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by lordfrito on Friday August 18, 2023 @05:15PM (#37182221)
Yep forgot about this, explanation makes perfect sense. Thank you.

Thank god we have these big wet heat sinks available to help keep climate stable.

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by NotYourLawyer on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:51PM (#37181166)
Antarctica is a huge white block of ice too. That reflects a lot of sunlight.
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by tsimionescu on Friday August 18, 2023 @04:45PM (#37181874)
The whole picture is more complex, as others are pointing out, but sticking just to evaporation - the point is that more energy in can lead to more humidity at the same temperature. Phase changes like evaporation consume energy without increasing temperature. Land masses don't experience phase changes at regular temperatures reached on the earth, so more energy in just leads to higher temperatures.
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by Etrnl_President on Friday August 18, 2023 @10:10PM (#37184775)
Check this website for good and detailed explanations of climate related stuff: https://www.climate4you.com/
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by adaml_623 on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:41PM (#37181044)
Yes. Northern and Southern seasons are not the same length due to the orbit. Also the proportion of land to ocean is very different which I think makes a big difference.
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by danw1979 on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:41PM (#37181043)
Because the landmass is split 68/32 north/south and sunlight on the land has a greater effect on atmospheric temperature than the sea ?
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by asah on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:38PM (#37181011)
not necessary: a lot of heat (energy) radiates out into space or is blocked from doing so but greenhouse gasses... and a lot of energy is sequestered into solid matter... or not...
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by MooMooMilkParty on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:46PM (#37181101)
Not a dumb question at all! The main reason is because there is much more land mass in the northern hemisphere than in the southern, and land tends to heat up more than ocean. You can actually see how this effect balances out on this site: https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/t2_daily/

If you look at the annual temperature range for the northern hemisphere (NH) it has a range >10C, while the southern hemisphere has a range ~5C.

You can read more about this here: https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-why-does-land-warm-up...

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by grammers on Friday August 18, 2023 @04:19PM (#37181541)
Thanks for explaining, this made my day!
Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by Alupis on Friday August 18, 2023 @04:49PM (#37181921)
Earth's Hottest Month**

** Since 1850

Why do these articles always try to sensationalize things? You lose credibility when you create clickbait headlines.

My understanding is temperatures recorded before about 1880 are unreliable[1]. This article does not provide a source for where their data comes from.

[1] https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/21/why-does-the-temperature-rec....

Re:Earth’s hottest month: these charts show what happened in... by KineticLensman on Friday August 18, 2023 @05:20PM (#37182297)
The closest approach to the Sun is actually in January, the Northern Hemisphere winter. But that is when the axial tilt means that the north pole spends most time pointing away from the Sun, hence winter.