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Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by kiririn on Monday August 07, 2023 @12:45PM (#37036977)
Hardware video encoding is a poor example as it is typically lower quality than software for a given bitrate
Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by FirmwareBurner on Monday August 07, 2023 @12:49PM (#37037047)
Maybe, but you get the point on energy efficiency though , no need to go into semantics of encoder quality as that was not the point, just an example off the top of my head that resonated with my anecdotes when i upgraded from a Core 2 Duo.

Even with SW only workloads, just look at the geekbench scores I posted.

If a 2W smartphone SoC can offer over 2x the performance of a 95W chip, then it's bit outdated and energy inefficient and maybe time to upgrade to something better and more energy efficient, unless you're tryin to compete in the "who has the most gas-guzzling terminal/youtube machine" competition.

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by bobbob1921 on Monday August 07, 2023 @01:35PM (#37037758)
Something people often overlook when comparing power usage of PC components, is that you often have to multiply the watt difference by 3x (or 4x) when you factor in cooling (air conditioning I mean, in regards to how to dissipate that heat generation, in your home).

I.e. PC-A might consume 100 watts more than PC-B, but the real efficiency when it comes to you our monthly electric bill is more like 300 to 500 W (in my experience, in a hot area of the country). Those 100 W of heat have to be removed from your home environment to keep whatever Ambient temperature you find comfortable.

Edit-it of course, works in the opposite direction in terms of your heating bill in the cold months of the year (but without the 3X multiplier)

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by minimaul on Monday August 07, 2023 @01:45PM (#37037913)
In most of Europe this isn't very applicable as most of Europe doesn't have any kind of active cooling in houses like A/C.
Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by FirmwareBurner on Monday August 07, 2023 @02:07PM (#37038233)
>In most of Europe this isn't very applicable

In most of Europe thermodynamics are still applicable, so extra heat from an old inefficient CPU still ends up un your house, raising your ambient temperature and making you uncomfortable (in the summer) regardless if you have AC or not.

Lack of AC doesn't make the problem go away, it just makes it a better case for investing in thermally efficient electronics.

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by The_Colonel on Monday August 07, 2023 @05:50PM (#37041441)
But it doesn't multiply the watt consumption of a home without AC, which was your original point.
Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by minimaul on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:21PM (#37044122)
Yes, but we tend to focus on passive cooling rather than active cooling - your comment was all about active cooling and the extra costs thereof, and passive cooling techniques do not imply an extra power cost.

But yes - modern lower power hardware (Apple Silicon, lower power AMD Zen, etc) can be drastically faster than older hardware, at significantly lower power - and massively lower total power consumption for work done.

You can get wins here by making sure even modern hardware is running in the more power efficient part it's perf/watt curve - for example, ECO mode on modern AMD hardware (105W+ to 65W, for instance), reducing the board power limit on GPUs when doing compute (~420W to 225W, for most efficient on my 3090!), etc. You lose remarkably little performance by doing so.

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by elzbardico on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @01:20AM (#37044812)
Northern Europe maybe. But A/C is pretty common in the Mediterranean. The only difference is that central A/C is correctly seem as something that makes sense in comercial spaces, not homes.

At homes what is more common are ductless split systems, combined with an architecture where you have windows that can be opened when the weather is not that hot.

It is completely idiotic to cool a whole McMansion when the 3 or 4 people inside are occupying no more than 30% of the space most of the time.

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by ihattendorf on Monday August 07, 2023 @02:09PM (#37038275)
> is that you often have to multiply the watt difference by 3x (or 4x) when you factor in cooling (air conditioning I mean, in regards to how to dissipate that heat generation, in your home).

Where are you getting these numbers from? Typical central air CoP (Coefficient of Performance) even when it's > 100 F outside is at least 2, typically 3-5. Assuming based on current outdoor temp the CoP is 3, it'll remove 100 W of heat with 33 W of energy. So instead of 100 W -> 300-500 W you're looking at 100 W -> 133 W total.

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by vel0city on Monday August 07, 2023 @06:41PM (#37041932)
> a 2W smartphone SoC can offer over 2x the performance of a 95W chip

2x performance in some very specific and narrow benchmark tasks.

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by superkuh on Monday August 07, 2023 @07:03PM (#37042136)
Exactly. If you have the latest and greatest mobile phone and 8GB (or 12GB) of LPDDR5 on a Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 soc you still only have 8.5 Gbps memory bandwith (max, less in actual phones running it at slower speeds). That's 1 GB/s. An ivy bridge i5 3570k has a memory bandwidth of 25 GB/s. Even an ancient Core 2 Duo has 5GB/s memory bandwidth at stock speeds. Phones are very bad at computing tasks outside of "watching video" "buying things online" and the like.
Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by kcb on Monday August 07, 2023 @08:50PM (#37043055)
Something is really off with your calculations. High-end Snapdragon chips are running with at least 64-bit busses, combined with the clock speed advantages LPDDR5 should put it well ahead of any 128-bit DDR3 system. At least 50GB/s.

The real reason phones are bad at computing tasks is they throttle when put under any sustained load.

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by vel0city on Monday August 07, 2023 @11:26PM (#37044159)
I'm seeing a lot of specs for that chip listing 64Gbit/s and some showing GB/s. I'd love to see some confirmation of actual performance.
Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by kcb on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @12:21AM (#37044472)
Depending on clock speed of memory. For LPDDR5-6400 which is pretty common.

3200000000(clock) x 2(DDR) x 2(16-bit channel width) x 4(channels) = 51200000000 bytes/sec or 51.2 GBytes/sec

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by vel0city on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @01:23AM (#37044834)
16 bits is where you added data width here, so that would be 52 gigabits a second, no? To go to bytes wouldn't we need to divide by 8?

And I imagine this commenter talking about 8GB RAM, they're assuming not all 4 channels are populated. So one could imagine two channels being populated, 25.6 Gbit/sec, divide by 8 to get bytes, that's then only 3.2GB/s?

Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by kcb on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @04:15AM (#37045999)
I multiplied by 2 instead of 16. That's what makes it bytes.
Re:Sandy Bridge: Setting Intel’s Modern Foundation by vel0city on Tuesday August 08, 2023 @08:35AM (#37048059)
Ah ok I see what you did there, thanks for the explanation.