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Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by kypro on Sunday August 06, 2023 @01:36PM (#37024514)
The same is true for healthcare generally in my experience. Very bad advice is often given.

I can't really common about the US, but here in the UK the quality of healthcare is shocking bad. Although we may have the opposite problem, where instead of doing unnecessary procedures to increase costs, the NHS generally tries to avoid doing anything unless you're dying.

I had some pain in my abdomen a few years back and had persistently elevated liver enzymes. My doctor told continuously told me not worry about it and would say the pain was probably because I was sitting funny and other nonsense. In their opinion I was too young to have liver problems so there was no point in doing any further tests.

Fed up, I decided to do my own research and pay for my own tests. From this I found out that I have a fairly rare generic condition which makes me highly predisposed to liver disease and NAFLD. Certainly not the end of the world, but it pissed me off a bit because the disease could have progressed had I taken their advice and simply ignored it.

Around this time I also had a family friend who was the same age as me. She went to the doctors repeatedly over the course of a year describing several symptoms she was experiencing just to be dismissed. Turns out she actually had cervical cancer, but they never ran any tests and kept telling her it was probably nothing to worry about. By the time she found out she had cancer it was stage four and she died a few weeks later. She was 28 and had two kids.

Like you I believe in listening to experts. Most experts know what they're talking about and generally give good advice, but it's important to keep in mind the conditions experts operate in. Here in the UK the NHS has neither the time or money to give you high quality healthcare. It doesn't really matter if you see the best doctor in the world, if they can't spent the time and money running the tests you need you're not going to get a good diagnosis.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by iancmceachern on Sunday August 06, 2023 @02:13PM (#37024906)
>The same is true for healthcare generally in my experience. Very bad advice is often given.

I have seen this in my personal life time and again. I have seen it in my professional life time and again.

The only way though the mine field is to take personal ownership over your Healthcare, you need to learn more about what ailes you than the doctors know. You need to be confident in this knowledge enough to challenge them and walk out to receive better care at any moment. This is why people say that healthcare us such a trap in the US particularly. If you are injured and incapacitated you can't advocate for yourself, and if you don't have the support infrastructure in place in your personal life we are just one medical event away from financial and physical ruin.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by tonyarkles on Sunday August 06, 2023 @05:07PM (#37026786)
[Canadian here, for context]

> The only way though the mine field is to take personal ownership over your Healthcare

Shortly after graduating from university, when I no longer had access to student health, I started hunting for a regular family physician. The guy I found... my first "let's get to know each other/annual physical" kind of appointment he said "Look, I don't know if you noticed but there are a lot of people out in the waiting room. My staff here is great, but things happen. Maybe they call you with test results and you miss the voicemail. Maybe the lab forgets to send the results. Maybe the fax from the lab gets stuck to another piece of paper. We're all human here, and I try really hard to treat each one of my patients as a real human and not just a list of symptoms on a page. If I'm going to be your doctor, there's only one thing I ask: be your own advocate. If you're expecting to hear back from us and you don't, or if you feel like we've missed something, or you have questions, or... anything really, please don't hesitate to follow up. I promise I'm going to do my best to look after your health, but you care about it more than anyone else in the world. Does that work for you?"

He was, by far, the best damned doctor I've ever had. And then, apparently, one day he had a serious family emergency back home and vanished, never to return :(.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by iancmceachern on Sunday August 06, 2023 @08:46PM (#37028594)
Damn right!

He know the realities of the system and is doing his best to get his patients good care.

It's like my first day of high school. I had a history teacher. The entire first class of history in high school was devoted to knowing yourself. He told us in basic terms how our bodies worked, that we shouldn't try to dp homework after a big meal, how we should use our resources, how we should be respectful, how learning the laws and history of our country could personally impact or protect us from injustice.

He treated us like equal human beings he truly wanted to help, not just work he had to do that day.

You're doctor did the same, blessings on him.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by User23 on Sunday August 06, 2023 @06:03PM (#37027349)
This is true for every kind of professional including realtors, lawyers, and financial advisors, just to name a few. At the end of the day everyone you hire is just doing a job, and it’s on you to learn enough to know that they are doing it to your satisfaction.
Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by iancmceachern on Sunday August 06, 2023 @08:47PM (#37028600)
True, but those professionals don't take the hippocratic oath.
Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by basisword on Sunday August 06, 2023 @02:31PM (#37025089)
>> It doesn't really matter if you see the best doctor in the world, if they can't spent the time and money running the tests you need you're not going to get a good diagnosis.

Everyone in the UK should get to experience a private consultation just once. The difference between the rushed 10mins you get with the NHS and the considered 30mins you get private is amazing. You leave feeling like you’ve been taken care of and all your questions have been answered. It’s only when you see this you can see just how bad the quality of care in the NHS is at the moment. We need to stop equating the NHS with the people that work for it and start calling it out for how god awful it is. We’ve made it a dirty that can’t be criticised properly when it sorely needs to be.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by noelwelsh on Sunday August 06, 2023 @02:49PM (#37025252)
I believe the NHS is seriously under-funded, the Tory government is responsible, and healthcare is suffering as a result.

However, I do want to provide an anecdote to illustrate that private healthcare is not perfect. I had some persistent pain in my foot. Realized I wouldn't get anywhere with the NHS so I went private. The person I saw had an excellent manner. They suggested some fairly gnarly surgery. Said I should think about it and in the meantime they gave me an anti-inflammatory injection. My problem cleared up in about two weeks. What was wrong: I have really really wide feet (seriously; they are wider than the widest setting on the foot measuring device they use at shoe shops.) I didn't know this. I was wearing Chuck Taylors, which are very narrow, and they were pinching my feet. I didn't wear my Chucks over the two weeks and I figured out what was wrong in that time. What I learned: everyone has a toolbox they want to reach into. In this case I was seen by a surgeon so they of course turned to surgery as solution. Always be your own advocate, to the best of your ability, in healthcare. (I thought the surgeon might have said something about the width of my feet given they spent so much time looking at feet.)

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by actionfromafar on Sunday August 06, 2023 @02:59PM (#37025345)
These feet looked like the nicest weekend ever, probably. (To the surgeon.)
Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by segh on Sunday August 06, 2023 @06:25PM (#37027554)
As a percentage of GDP, the UK has the 6th highest healthcare spending of OECD countries, on par with Switzerland. The UK is not an outlier in terms of spending.

https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=SHA

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by stephen_g on Monday August 07, 2023 @01:47AM (#37030620)
Some of that is probably down to the dysfunctional models that have been brought in (in the name of 'cost saving' or 'efficiency' or what ever nonsense) - like Blair's PFI model where they signed up to pay £80 billion to private investors over the long term for what amounted to £13bn of actual investment... This seems to have continued under the Tories and the UK public are on the hook to continue to pay huge repayments to private companies for decades to provide services that could have just been publicly funded in the first place...
Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by noelwelsh on Monday August 07, 2023 @02:38AM (#37030994)
Much more detail on funding problems here: https://nhsfunding.info/nhs-crisis-making/
Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by thefaux on Sunday August 06, 2023 @10:44PM (#37029431)
Long ago I broke my collarbone in a bicycle race. It's a common injury in the sport so I got a referral to a surgeon from another racer who'd had a fracture of his own surgically repaired. To my surprise, she took a very conservative course of action. The clavicle had broken pretty cleanly in half and the outer half had settled in about an inch inward underneath the inner half. You might think that would be a good candidate for surgery so the bone could have been moved back into the old position with the help of a plate. But she thought it would be best if I came back in a few weeks and see if it had healed on its own. To my amazement, it did heal so that now I have a weird knob in my clavicle but the bone feels as strong as the never broken side. The recovery was tough though and took years. At times I wished I'd had it surgically repaired but now I admire my surgeon's restraint. She correctly diagnosed that I didn't need surgery to recover even though she had no personal relationship to me and a financial incentive to operate. But I also saw that since she operated on my friend that she would operate if she deemed it necessary. Thus I believe that she actually evaluated each case carefully on its own. Unfortunately, the tendency towards pushing patients into lucrative active interventions (like surgeries) does seem common even if it isn't the rule.
Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by Scoundreller on Monday August 07, 2023 @02:21AM (#37030869)
My Canadian experience with that injury was basically the surgeon would operate on me if I wanted, and that would get me back to 100% faster, but it's more invasive and largely unnecessary unless your everyday life required faster healing (e.g. you job depends on it). Which it didn't because I had a desk job.

There might be an age component to it: the risk of it not healing correctly increases with age.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by pablobaz on Sunday August 06, 2023 @03:35PM (#37025730)
>The difference between the rushed 10mins you get with the NHS and the considered 30mins you get private is amazing. You leave feeling like you’ve been taken care of and all your questions have been answered.

This is true for fairly simple cases. But when something is complex or very serious you want a true multidisciplinary team that sees the most cases per annum - that is the NHS.

A private consultant in a nice office with a very nice efficient secretary is great for their particular expertise but outside of that poor. This is based on more experience personally and with family than I would wish anyone to have.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by samtho on Sunday August 06, 2023 @02:44PM (#37025207)
> From this I found out that I have a fairly rare generic condition which makes me highly predisposed to liver disease and NAFLD. Certainly not the end of the world, but it pissed me off a bit because the disease could have progressed had I taken their advice and simply ignored it.

I was diagnosed after a blood test (in the US) but they just put me on a statin (high cholesterol medication) that fixed only what the blood test showed and did not treat the problem. Now I’m having to, with 10 fewer years than when learned it, drastically adjust my life and diet to ensure I won’t develop additional complications.

Why are we so hilariously bad at treating chronic problems?

Btw through generic genealogy, I’ve managed to pinpoint which branch of my family that this comes from and they’re all from Yorkshire. Given how rare it is, there is a nonzero chance we are cousins of some sort if you have semi-recent ancestral origins there.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by esafak on Sunday August 06, 2023 @03:32PM (#37025687)
Statins reduce cholesterol production. What were you hoping for?
Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by liamconnell on Sunday August 06, 2023 @02:49PM (#37025247)
I lived in Argentina for a few years. There are plenty of problems with their public healthcare system that pretty much mirror any country with a troubled economy, but one day a work colleague recommended I visit the Favoloro Institute. I’ve never seen such an impressive healthcare organization in my life.

They time their appointments ever 2 minutes so you’re expected to arrive early. Once you start, they wiz you around to about a dozen tests including getting hooked up to electrodes while running on a treadmill. After less than an hour you see a doctor who goes through everything for about 15 very detailed and thoughtful minutes.

The entire thing is FREE! Completely publicly funded.

I don’t know much about healthcare but this type of thing always struck me as a missing apparatus of healthcare in the US. Although apparently Favoloro (who invented some kind of bypass surgery) founded the Institute after being inspired by the Cleveland Clinic.

Would love to hear other people’s thoughts on this because I tell that story all the time!

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by culiao on Sunday August 06, 2023 @02:58PM (#37025339)
Interesting. I too lived abroad in argentina for a few years... the healthcare there is actually pretty impressive. I had my tonsils removed, I had a crown put on my molar, dermatolgist appointments, etc. Even a podatrist and custom orthotics... From now on... anything major - I am flying back to get things done.

USA healthcare system burns me out.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by gochi on Sunday August 06, 2023 @04:02PM (#37026012)
That sounds like what private clinics offer around here, certainly not for free, but they tend to perform an onslaught of tests.

I don't know how effective it is, and how much of it is theater.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by Scoundreller on Monday August 07, 2023 @02:13AM (#37030801)
> I don't know how effective it is, and how much of it is theater.

They may not know either.

Most of our research is studying how well treatments work on "patients that came in with _____ symptoms and we found test X Y and Z was outside of the normal range".

Does that mean you should use the same treatments when you have X Y and Z out of range but without symptoms? We often don't know.

Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by midoridensha on Monday August 07, 2023 @12:57AM (#37030329)
This sounds much like the annual health check-ups that are done here in Japan. They're paid for by your employer, and involve a battery of tests on many things: blood work, stool/urine samples, chest x-ray, abdominal ultrasound, hearing and eye checks, etc.
Re:I Went to 50 Different Dentists: Almost All Gave a Differ... by phil21 on Monday August 07, 2023 @01:57PM (#37038088)
> after being inspired by the Cleveland Clinic.

Interesting. I was considering commenting that your experience sounds a lot like the VIP (using the term loosely here, it's much more accessible than "multi-millionaire") care available at the Mayo Clinic. You can accomplish in a day or two what would typically take months to years in many areas of the US, including mine.