by same token if you show up in hoodie I can assume you are drug dealer ? Not a kind I would like to do business with

well, of the three, I'm more likely to trust a drug dealer to write code.

You turned the argument into a joke, but jes5199's rebuttal was very valid.

And that is a problem?

Yes.

It's lazy thinking. The whole ethos of casual dress at work was that it didn't matter what you wore, it was about what you did and thought and that we shouldn't make assumptions based on something so superficial.

That's now flipped and become some form of inverted snobbery where the people who objected to being judged on what they were wearing (or not wearing) are now doing exactly the same.

The point isn't that wearing a suit or jeans or whatever is good, bad or indifferent. It's that it doesn't matter.

If it didn't matter what you wore, no one would wear suits. They're either uncomfortable and impractical or incredibly expensive, and sometimes both. The only real reasons to wear a suit involve either social pressure to do so or narcissism.

I think this may say more about your personal circumstances and world view than anything much wider.

I've got suits that aren't uncomfortable and weren't incredibly expensive. As for impractical that depends entirely on your life. I certainly wear them less now I have small children but when I was younger I never found it an issue.

In terms of social pressure, well yes, but that's true of a many many things that we do. If you've ever pulled on a clean pair of jeans to go out and meet a friend rather than the dirty (but still hygienic) pair you'd worn the day before, that's social pressure, when you don't just fart in front of people, that's social pressure.

Are those worse than my occasionally wearing a suit to go out with my wife because it makes her happy because she likes the way I look in it? Or because I've just been feeling a bit schlubby lately and fancy looking smart for the day? Or simply fancy a change?

I say this all as someone who typically wears jeans seven days a week and has casual dress as a significant factor when I choose a job.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it; people do worse things out of social pressure and there are far more obnoxious ways to express narcissism, but I don't see any of your rationales falling outside of those two categories.

" The only real reasons to wear a suit involve either social pressure to do so or narcissism. "

You say that as if it is an absolute truth. This might be true for you, but it certainly doesn't hold for everyone.

My argument should be pretty easy to refute then; name one reason, other than social pressure or narcissism, to wear a suit.

Name one reason to wear a band t-shirt other than social pressure or narcissism?

Your argument isn't an argument against suits, it applies to any item of clothing other than the absolutely most basic, utilitarian items. It's an argument against fashion and self expression through clothing of all sorts.

Now if this is what you genuinely believe then that's fine but I hope you're applying the same standards you apply to those wearing suits to people wearing band t-shirts, anything branded where an equivalent non-branded item is available, or frankly anything that has been chosen for any reason at all other than it's absolute functional value.

I appreciate and wanted to support the band, it's comfortable, and all my other shirts were in the laundry. You still haven't answered my question.

How about: Because I don't subscribe to the philosophy of Diogenes.

OK, I wanted to appreciate and support the tailor because I like the idea that people make clothes that are about craftsmanship and skill not just utility.

Or my other clothes were in the wash. Happy now?

Is that not a clear enough example of why your argument isn't just about suits when I can just reuse your answer an it works?

Both of your reasons are circular--one buys a suit to support the manufacture of suits? Buying a shirt to support a band is quite a different thing. And if all your clothes are in the wash except your suit, well why did you own the suit?

You're missing the point, I'm buying the suit to support the designer / tailor, the creator NOT the mass manufacturer. Like you I'm supporting the creative endevour of an individual or group.

In this sense it's a far better reason for a suit than for a band t-shirt. A suit is the primary output of a tailor, a band t-shirt is a commercial by-product of a band. There are better ways to support a band than buying a t-shirt - buying their records or seeing them live for instance. There is no better way to support a tailor.

As for the circular reasoning on its dirty - I agree but it's the same for both suit and band t-shirt. You have to have a reason to own it which I've given you.

How am I missing the point? Whether the suit is made by a tailor or a mass manufacturer, it's still circular reasoning to buy a suit to support the manufacture of suits.

Fashion is a creative industry. If I admire the creativity in that industry and I think that the things that they produce are beautiful examples of design (which you may not agree personally appreciate but I'm guessing that you won't refute the basic premise that fashion is a creative design industry). How am I meant to support them and to encourage and ensure the survival of that industry, other than by buying the things they produce?

Regardless of that owning and wearing a suit because I think it is a beautiful example of clothes design, regardless of whether it supports the creator or not, is a valid thing to do in itself that is neither narcissistic nor an example of social pressure.

And in case you think I'm desperately trying to come up with reasons but that they're not actually things any real person would do, I own only two suits, one of which (by Oswald Boateng) I own precisely for this reason - because I believe it to be a beautiful item (or more precisely two beautiful items) of clothing.

Ah yes--so now we're up to narcissism, social pressure to wear a suit, or an aesthetic appreciation of suits in themselves. I will take you at your word that you wear suits purely to appreciate their beauty in and of themselves, and not in a narcissistic attempt to make yourself more beautiful by nature of being wrapped in such beautiful garments.

I didn't say it was the only reason I did it, that wasn't your question. The reality is few things we do can be ascribed to a single motive, more normally they're a mix of several things. But your question was name a reason which wasn't the two you gave of which this is one. There are others but given how much work it's been just to get you to gracelessly accept that there might be something here I really don't have the strength to talk about any others.

But the problem is still that your argument applies to lost of clothes, not just suits. Shirts are less practical than t-shirts. Buttons are fiddly and unnecessary, collars a pointless throw back to necktie and don't get me started on the practicality of cuffs. Most shoes are sub-optimal from a pure practicality point of view. Ironically many trainers aren't actually good for running because of the way they're balanced.

The problem is that you danced around my point rather than addressing it; perhaps if you had been more direct and to-the-point, you would have the strength to address it more convincingly.

Here's a reason: it's the most comfortable piece of clothing I own.

Actually, my suit (there's only one) fits nicely and is comfortable.

But I only wear it to interviews.