Have we considered, that despite the "pangs of childbirth" that are a very real part of the experience, that conception, pregnancy, and childbirth are natural processes, not diseases or disorders to be eliminated, and that mankind has been well-equipped to accompany women and support them every step of the way, no matter what obstacles they face, that they retain their dignity and continue to fulfill their vocation of motherhood?
I propose that artificial ovaries are misogynistic. Is George M. Church a woman? He's a very well-funded Church indeed!
I hope you never express this attitude within earshot of a woman who is experiencing reproductive pain in her life.
Additionally, I never called motherhood a disease or disorder to be eliminated. I only said I hoped the pressure on women to be mothers would lessen! You seem to be projecting here.
I can cite sources, if you'd like. Mothers on their own motherhood.
Some mothers find pregnancy and childbirth to be a deep, sublime, spiritual experience, the best thing they’ve ever done. Some mothers are miserable every minute of it: sick, traumatized, afraid. You do not have the right to speak for all of us when you’re quoting just those of us whose experience reinforces your opinions about how the world should work.
This technology feels rife for abuse in building armies or company-grown and owned “employees” that function as property of the corp. Artificial wombs may be cool for people who are otherwise infertile, but to see people so quick to replace natural childbirth with this to “relieve women of the pressure of motherhood.”
This feels like something that people who want a larger labor market would love. The population grows, and they never even have to have the women stop working! We’ve gone too far in the direction of fetishizing work in the USA. We shouldn’t be fighting for women’s work to be equal work with men, we should be fighting for the restoration of the family unit via increased wages that can support a family with only 1 salary. Propaganda has made us instead try to have both parents work full time jobs and raise the kids via daycare and TikTok, because that’s what makes a woman strong and independent. It’s sad to see people fight against their interests.
You should ask the mothers you know how they feel about that? The majority (i'd say the vast majority), consider motherhood the most important and best thing in their lives.
Plus, the only alternative is men? Who by definition cannot be "mothers". So you're describing being raise only by fathers. So.. now the suggestion is just adding pressure of fatherhood? lol
> Maybe we can even develop more equitable societies where any gender can raise any children, or all genders will be expected to raise all children.
All genders, in all cultures, do raise all children. That said, each likely plays a different role. Just imagine some hunter gatherer culture - men provide meat, teach their sons to hunt & fish too, teach their daughters to pick honorable men for husbands, maybe even find honorable men. Women, teach their children to clean animals, make clothes, make food & fires, etc. This tradition has largely stayed the same.
In the first world, Women have changed their roles, as automation replaced the need for many of the tasks. Men have continued to provide a similar role. In both cases, I argue parents are increasingly teaching their children less directly; outsourcing it to "educators". That said, I think it's had detrimental effects on families and you can see that in the depression rates, competency rates, divorce rates, etc.
This has been going on for a loooong time.
Yes, I know many women of my age. They feel really, really pressured to be mothers even when they don't want to be. Several women I know literally had to cut people out of their lives due to verbal abuse trying to pressure them to be mothers! Every mother I know also has expressed how exhausting motherhood is and emphasized how it should be an entirely uncoerced choice.
How many women do you speak to casually about this sort of thing?
And women are pressured to enter the workforce; in fact they're forced to take extensive education, enter the workforce, and to establish a career, and all that takes effort and resources that won't be invested in motherhood or family. So, it's understandable that women rarely hear about the joys of permanent, fruitful, faithful matrimony and motherhood, and that the prevailing winds should whisper into a woman's ear that motherhood is a drag, pregnancy is a horrific experience you'll never recover from, and the best thing to do is not let yourself be weighed down by the bonds of love and intimacy with a husband or children.
I never said pregnancy is a disease, or that motherhood is a drag. I said I've spoken with mothers who have said motherhood should be uncoerced. I said I know women who have chosen not to have children and have needed to escape verbal abuse from people who pressure them, and I hope the ability to have children without a woman involved will societally lessen the pressure women have to be mothers. I want the only people who are mothers are people who want to be mothers, not people who feel that just because they are a woman they must also become a mother. This leads to really painful, desperately sad places psychologically for women who are infertile, have miscarriages, or lose their fertility through the natural aging process.
Or, worst case, only poor people will be expected to raise children at all, and raising children will become a job/career bimodally distributed to the very poor earning almost nothing raising workers to fuel capitalism and the very wealthy developing dynasties to rule over the poor with.