Re:Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs
by imgabe on Tuesday August 01, 2023 @09:55PM
(#36966003)
You can show the bodily autonomy argument is nonsense with a simple thought experiment. What if it were someone you actually cared about? Your son or daughter, sibling, loved one? Would you say "oh well, I guess I have to respect their bodily autonomy". No, you'd drag them into rehab whether they wanted to go or not. Because you know that is ultimately better for them. That's what you do when you care about someone. You don't let them rot and die on the street. Clearly the folks pushing for letting people die on the street do not care about the well-being of those people.
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You're missing influence vs force. If I care about someone I will do everyone in my power to get them into rehab but I would never force them, even if I had parental authority over them to do so. The only time in my life I have ever deprived someone of their bodily autonomy is with their consent, "hey when I'm drunk don't let me smoke."
That’s because you’re an individual. We imbue the government with the power to use force to protect both individuals and the general public from the negative effects of antisocial behavior like fouling up a public space so you can do drugs in a tent.
The "doing drugs" part seems basically immaterial, if they were doing those same drugs in a house I doubt would you care at all. If you want to just ban being homeless in a tent in shared public spaces then go off king, I'll vote for it. If possible I would just want there to be some actual shelter for them to go to. We somehow have the money to feed, clothe, and house a bunch of people in prison, we could make shelters of comparable sizes and amenities.
The two are interconnected. If they weren't addicted to drugs, they probably wouldn't be homeless living in a tent. There's probably no scenario where you get a homeless drug addict into housing and they are able to maintain a normal lifestyle and have a job, take care of themselves, and contribute to society while still being addicted to drugs, so getting them off of drugs is going to be a necessary part of getting their life back on track.
Sure, if someone is addicted to drugs but is still able to maintain a home and otherwise take care of themselves, then that's not society's problem, at least, yet. I still think they'd be better off not doing drugs, but it's not yet to the point where their problems are imposing on other people.
Re:Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs
by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday August 02, 2023 @01:41AM
(#36967331)
It’s totally a selection bias: if someone is doing drugs but isn’t running around screaming half naked in the street having a fent crisis, you would hardly notice them would you? It is for the same reason that homelessness has been wrongly equivocated with drug addiction (you don’t notice the ones that aren’t shoplifting to support their habit or having a crisis on the street for one drug related reason or another).
Surely there are adults and kids doing this in their homes, and we usually don’t notice them until a tragedy occurs (eg a teenager tries fent for the first time…and they are dead).
I am skeptical that there are large numbers of casual Fentanyl users who are just injecting a little Fentanyl after work to relax and otherwise leading normal lives. If there are any, they probably don’t stay that way for very long.
Re:Oregon Decriminalized Hard Drugs
by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday August 02, 2023 @12:52PM
(#36973469)
Oh, ya, probably. Although I wonder if the Fentanyl crisis is just limited to the people we see going nuts on the streets, or much broader than that.