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Re:First new US nuclear reactor in decades enters commercial... by bryanlarsen on Monday July 31, 2023 @06:26PM (#36949718)
The US alone has 800GWh of battery plants in the pipeline, to come online before 2026.[1] China has multiple TWh's worth. We can build 35TWh or even 350TWh of batteries a lot faster and than we can build the multiple TW of nuclear plants that would be necessary to decarbonize electricity without storage.

1: https://publications.anl.gov/anlpubs/2022/11/178584.pdf

> The reality is that peak energy demand happens at night

Peak net energy demand happens at night. Peak gross demand is during the day.

> Eland can do this demand shift because other producers are picking up the slack.

Eland is producing at a rate identical to the California demand curve, it's in their contract. It's the solar producers who don't have solar along with consumer rooftop solar that's causing the duck curve daytime demand drop.

> If I have a plant that produces 1,000 MW during the date and 100=MW at night, that's technically 24 hours of production. But clearly this is not the same thing as a nuclear plant that produces 1000 MW at all hours.

But the former costs 1/10th of the latter, so you build 10 of them to get 1000MW at night and 10000MW during the day.

Re:First new US nuclear reactor in decades enters commercial... by Manuel_D on Monday July 31, 2023 @06:42PM (#36949852)
The "pipeline" you're referring to is a measure of battery manufacturing capacity. This is not nearly the same thing as actual production figures. Capacity utilization in 2022 was under 35%. In other words, 100 GWh of capacity only translated into 35 GWh of battery production. This is because the majority of cost of lithium ion batteries is in raw materials, namely cathode material [1]. A huge amount of capacity is useless if you don't have the input materials to feed your factories.

You can't store energy in a battery factory, you store energy in batteries. Cite the actual production figures, not the stated capacity figures (spoiler alert: it was just under 500 GWh last year.).

And to reiterate, the vast majority of this production is not going to grid storage, it's going to EVs and electronics. Even if battery production matches the predicted growth, it's still vastly insufficient to provision grid storage without heavily crippling EV rollout.

> Eland is producing at a rate identical to the California demand curve, it's in their contract. It's the solar producers who don't have solar along with consumer rooftop solar that's causing the duck curve daytime demand drop

Again, electricity demand at night is still high: https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx

Demand remains high well into midnight. I'm not sure why you think matching the demand curve is somehow going to mean you're going to get away with less storage. Unless Eland is going to be producing much less than its nameplate capacity at all times of day, 4 hours of storage is nowhere near enough for it to match the demand curve. And remember, solar is also subject to cloud cover. I'm sure Eland has clauses exempting it during periods of cloud coverage otherwise they'd need weeks of storage not hours.

> If I have a plant that produces 1,000 MW during the date and 100=MW at night, that's technically 24 hours of production. But clearly this is not the same thing as a nuclear plant that produces 1000 MW at all hours. But the former costs 1/10th of the latter, so you build 10 of them to get 1000MW at night and 10000MW during the day.

The former doesn't have a price tag, because no amount of money in the world will buy you that much lithium ion batteries. Again, the world uses 70,000 GWh of electricty per day, most of that being consumed when solar is not producing electricity. No amount of money can fulfill that amount of storage.

1. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/breaking-down-the-cost-of-a...