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Re:The Right to Lie and Google’s “Web Environment Integrity” by throwawayadvsec on Sunday July 30, 2023 @06:41PM (#36936736)
Yeah but SSH and RDP aren't used by grandmas that get their wallets emptied by scammers. Forced SSL everywhere is a good thing.

It's bad that it's run by corporations, but it's still a good thing overall. Maybe it should be run by different people(like IDK ICANN over something like the UN)

Re:The Right to Lie and Google’s “Web Environment Integrity” by jabbany on Sunday July 30, 2023 @07:05PM (#36936941)
Again, what's the risk that a first time visit to a site is going to give you a fake certificate?

OTOH SSL has done nothing for preventing phishing, since no CAs actually verify anything beyond you owning the domain.

Re:The Right to Lie and Google’s “Web Environment Integrity” by paulmd on Sunday July 30, 2023 @07:44PM (#36937229)
Well, any time anyone might be loading up a website for the first time in a coffee shop.

Also, “remember this cert forever” (cert pinning) has been an ops disaster for a lot of sites that have tried it. So in practice “the first time” might be more like every week or every month. What the risk that a coffee shop will not serve you a malicious cert once a week?

Also if they do it and you move back to your home connection… the site is broken there because now it’s returning a different one than was pinned (by the attacker!).

Re:The Right to Lie and Google’s “Web Environment Integrity” by apostacy on Sunday July 30, 2023 @10:05PM (#36938080)
There are plenty of ways to improve security but maintain openness.

I think a good idea might be to have TOFU and self-signed only as a fallback. If there was no initial mismatch, and then upate cert periodically.

Re:The Right to Lie and Google’s “Web Environment Integrity” by Brian_K_White on Monday July 31, 2023 @06:28AM (#36940712)
This amounts to a new "won't someone think of the children?"

All the little green lock icons in the world haven't put a dent in phishing or spoofing.