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A comment on Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better performance. Parent comment

Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by Filligree on Friday July 28, 2023 @02:34AM (#36903666)
Humans are incredibly sensitive to audio rhythms/lag, and we’re talking about a rhythm game. Visual processing isn’t likely to notice, but this is probably between hearing/feeling the keystroke and hearing the reaction. 3ms is entirely believable; detection is based on a frequency domain transformation of the overlaid waveforms, not tuning as such.

At the same time, sure, we easily compensate.

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by forrestthewoods on Friday July 28, 2023 @03:05AM (#36903819)
Yeah I don’t buy that. It’s a long pipeline and there’s almost definitely more than 3 milliseconds of jitter. I’d wager that success/failure sounds are quantized to audio buffers that are a good bit longer than 3ms.

This is a deep and interesting enough topic that you could publish a pretty good and valuable paper on what the JND is for poor, average, elite, and “professional” players is.

If the line is 3ms for pro I will gladly bet the over!

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by Filligree on Friday July 28, 2023 @03:09AM (#36903856)
Oh, I’m expecting there’s 3ms of jitter. On a good day.

The total lag is almost certainly an order of magnitude above.

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by Paul-Craft on Friday July 28, 2023 @04:00AM (#36904146)
Have you ever had the experience of having a malfunctioning phone system play back your own voice to you on a slight delay? I have. It's maddening to the point where I find it difficult to continue the phone conversation, and I'd bet that's on the order of 3-5 ms audio delay.
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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by 57FkMytWjyFu on Friday July 28, 2023 @05:09AM (#36904526)
https://arxiv.org/abs/1202.6106

". In general, human speech is jammed by giving back to the speakers their own utterances at a delay of a few hundred milliseconds. "

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by Paul-Craft on Friday July 28, 2023 @06:12AM (#36904896)
Trust me. It's way less than a few hundred ms.
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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by forrestthewoods on Friday July 28, 2023 @05:16AM (#36904561)
That’s completely different from being able to identify 3ms of input lag.
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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by Certhas on Friday July 28, 2023 @03:38AM (#36904016)
You can set up a double bound really easily for this. Play on speaker, and have someone move the speaker a couple of metres. See if you really can tell whether it has been moved.
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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by withinboredom on Friday July 28, 2023 @06:33AM (#36905009)
Can you tell direction of a sound just by turning your head? Congrats, you can detect the difference of less than 1ms.
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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by Certhas on Friday July 28, 2023 @06:42AM (#36905056)
With simultaneously present signals...

Edit: I can also tune a guitar by plucking two strings at once, but I can't by plucking them one at a time.

This really has nothing to do with noticing the absence or presence of a 3ms latency difference in a situation where your baseline is already dozens of ms of latency in the best case.

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by Certhas on Friday July 28, 2023 @11:34AM (#36908416)
After reading some of the science on auditory perception it seems you are wrong. If you perceive a signal in the left ear and then get a louder signal on the right ear a few milliseconds later you will perceive this as one sound coming from the right. The precedence effect breaks down.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect

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