Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better performance

Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by badsectoracula on Thursday July 27, 2023 @09:49PM (#36902300)

> Not to mention most of these now fixed problems likely weren't even problems if you had a G-Sync/Freesync display and a compatible GPU.

I have a Freesync display and a compatible GPU and i can feel the difference between no vsync and freesync. There is a slight lag there, if you cannot feel it do not assume that others cannot too (some people even seem to not be able to feel a difference between having vsync on and off or having a compositor or not enable - nowadays really only possible on Linux but in the past you could also do it with WinVista/Win7 and in Win8 with hacks like the one linked - which is mind boggling to me).

Of course the input lag depends on the game and how you play it. First person games with raw input, 1:1 mapping of the input (i.e. no filtering whatsoever) and little to no frame queuing (some engines run 1-2 frames "behind" the game state and if you add things like triple buffering you end up with extra lag) are the best to notice this whereas third person games played with a gamepad (where you have only indirect control of the camera - you control the camera's rotation speed, not the camera directly) are way harder to notice, as are games where you mainly use the mouse to click where to go (especially if the game uses a hardware cursor instead of rendering the cursor itself as part of the game UI).

Also high refresh rate monitors make it slightly easier to overlook the lag (though it still is possible to tell - mine is a 165Hz monitor after all and i can still notice, it just doesn't annoy me as much as on a 60Hz monitor).

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by babypuncher on Friday July 28, 2023 @12:55AM (#36903226)

One of the big things to remember with VRR is that you will incur a latency penalty of a couple of frames if your game is running right at the maximum refresh rate of your display. This is why it is usually recommended to set a system wide framerate cap a few frames below the maximum supported value.

For most modern gaming monitors, this isn't a huge deal. Cap your game at 140 FPS on a 144hz display and it will feel as snappy as it probably would have uncapped. Though if you have a lower end (or ultra high resolution) display that caps out at something much lower, like 60, then I can definitely see how leaving it uncapped with VRR disabled would feel a lot snappier.

Early Freesync-branded displays could also be a bit of a crapshoot for a variety of reasons, but this has gotten much better in the last 5-6 years.

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by avereveard on Friday July 28, 2023 @01:07AM (#36903281)

Yeah freesync is just causing uneven frame times if the game is not running higher than the monitor refresh rate and with monitor pushing above 144hz is harder and harder. At some point frame time will be so small that this unevenness will be unnoticeable but in the most common price range adaptive sync at half monitor rate is a better experience

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by badsectoracula on Friday July 28, 2023 @03:24AM (#36903935)

> One of the big things to remember with VRR is that you will incur a latency penalty of a couple of frames if your game is running right at the maximum refresh rate of your display. [..] For most modern gaming monitors, this isn't a huge deal. Cap your game at 140 FPS on a 144hz display and it will feel as snappy as it probably would have uncapped.

That sounds very weird to me, why would that be the case?

(also FWIW i'm using Linux so a system-wide cap isn't exactly possible, though at least with games i can simply run them via mangohud)

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Re:Kill DWM (on Windows11) for less input lag and better per... by babypuncher on Monday July 31, 2023 @02:49PM (#36947132)

On Linux I use Mangohud or libstrangle to cap framerates. For me it is not a major annoyance though, as I only play a few games regularly on Linux. I still boot into Windows after I'm done with work and play most games there.

My understanding of why this causes a problem is that the CPU starts running ahead of the GPU, and queues up frames to be rendered. So it shouldn't be a problem with games that support Nvidia Reflex or some other feature to limit pre-rendered frames.

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