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Re:It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem by pyre on Sunday March 11, 2012 @06:06AM (#3690062)
It's not just an HR issue. I've come across a number of situations where developers are making hiring decisions and using arbitrary criteria to base them on. E.g.:

* The fire storm over Deviant Art's 'we only hired 0.0000001% of people' blogpost/HN discussion.

* I went through the application process at a start-up where they were "really excited" about me after the first interview, but dropped me after the second because of a couple of stupid trivia questions. Trivia questions related to callable classes in Python, a feature that while interesting is (from what I can tell) little-used and extremely easy to pick up (took me 5 minutes of looking at the docs).

* I've seen groups within my own company pass up people with potential because they are 'too old to be junior developers.' (In this case, it was someone with development experience, though not too much, that was changing careers and who showed promise in his interview questions.)

* I know of particular people within my own company that are really smart, but also really harsh on interviewees. The tune seems to be along the lines of, "I'm a rockstar programmer, and if you're not too, then you're an idiot and I don't want to work with you."

* I know of places where it's generally admitted that current employees would not pass the interview process for the job that they do, even though no one thinks that they are inadequate for the position.

These are all examples of developers also doing a horrible job at hiring by finding arbitrary criteria to base their decisions on that have little to do with whether or not someone is a qualified candidate.

Re:It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem by _delirium on Sunday March 11, 2012 @07:30AM (#3690178)
On the trivia-questions angle, I do think developers who've been working with a particular set of technology for a while tend to highly value deep knowledge of the particulars of that technology, and under-estimate the competence of someone who doesn't come from exactly the same background. It's not so much that they feel the detail is important, but that it becomes a heuristic of, if you don't know X and call yourself a Y-programmer, you must be incompetent or faking. Which is a tough call to make with all these permutations of experience people could have, and excludes anyone whose technology/stack experience is even slightly different.

The traditional example is interviews for C coding jobs, where when developers interview, they gravitate towards standards-lawyering type interview questions. That at least has the advantage of being a fairly stable community, though; being a "C coder" has a certain set of cultural assumptions, and it might even be true that if you don't know certain trivia questions, it's a reliable litmus test for whether you're "really" a C specialist.

Re:It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem by match on Sunday March 11, 2012 @02:55PM (#3690960)
This is why I never make a judgment based on the answer of a single trivia-like question. I will jump all over the map and ask about as many different aspects of a topic as I can, hoping to map out where the depth of knowledge is for a candidate. If I am getting mostly blank stares I then give them the opportunity to decide what to tell me about the subject, in case they can surprise me. Unfortunately the vast majority of the time candidates are unable to convince me that they have deep knowledge on a subject. I want to find qualified people as much as these people would like to be considered qualified. But sometimes I feel like I throw a bunch of stuff at the candidate and NOTHING sticks.

I am beginning to believe that the majority of people who consider themselves experts or experienced are really just novice or intermediate and don't realize how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Re:It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem by lrobb on Sunday March 11, 2012 @09:58PM (#3692025)
Exhibit B: We code in Ruby, but are open to engineers with strong backgrounds in any interpreted or functional languages (Python, Lisp, Scala, Erlang . . .). Even a Java background might be OK, if you can show us that you are still learning and growing as an engineer. No C# /.Net engineers though: there are limits!* Ad for Principal Engineer at Slideshare
Re:It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem by pyre on Monday March 12, 2012 @12:14AM (#3692307)
My point wasn't to paint all developers as being bad at hiring. My point is that HR shouldn't be used as a scapegoat for what's wrong with technical hiring.

I understand that it can be frustrating to feel like some non-technical person is blocking you from talking to someone that you can relate to and prove your value to. But it is just as frustrating once you get to someone technical that can understand you, only to find that that person is using equally arbitrary criterion to evaluate you.

Re:It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem by lrobb on Monday March 12, 2012 @07:55AM (#3693089)
I messed up the formatting on that.

I agree with your point, and posted that job ad in support of it: To disqualify someone because they are using C#/.NET is arbitrary and stupid, and apparently came from engineering.

Re:It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem by smsm42 on Thursday March 15, 2012 @02:49AM (#3707217)
These guys are trying to be funny, but in fact they probably are just limiting their available pool of talent. It's not a big deal - they probably need just one person, so they'd find that person anyway. But it does look somewhat childish.
Re:It's not a talent shortage, it's a hiring problem by doktrin on Friday March 16, 2012 @04:12PM (#3715061)
Out of curiosity, how old were the candidates who were deemed too old to be junior devs? I'm in a similar situation myself (turning 29), and am concerned about my age being bad juju.