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A comment on Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil. Parent comment

Re:Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil by unmole on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @11:38PM (#36888632)
> serious flaws that need addressing

I'm not familiar with Pix but from what I've read, it's similar to India's UPI. There only two real problems with UPI:

1. Card networks have standard dispute resolution process which often involves a temporary credit while the investigation is ongoing. Disputing UPI transactions on the other hand is painful.

2. Banks don't make any money on UPI transactions. And with UPI credit transactions, they are basically giving people interest free loans. And considering there are no transaction fees, this is open for abuse.

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Re:Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil by flangola7 on Thursday July 27, 2023 @05:42AM (#36891146)
What kind of abuse?
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Re:Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil by unmole on Thursday July 27, 2023 @06:42AM (#36891628)
Alice registers as a merchant and has her friend Bob pay her a large amount of money using a UPI enabled credit card. Neither Alice nor Bob paid any transaction charges. Alice sticks the money in a high interest bank account and returns the money to Bob after 30 days along with half of the interest she earned. Bob pays off his credit card bill before the due date and therefore isn't charged any interest. Alice and Bob have made money out of thin air.
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Re:Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil by samarthr1 on Thursday July 27, 2023 @08:15AM (#36892317)
To register as a merchant, a reasonably large (i think) turnover is needed, in a sustained manner ( iirc a few months).

The UPI over credit card is primarily there for peer-peee merchant transactions...

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Re:Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil by unmole on Thursday July 27, 2023 @11:23AM (#36894976)
> To register as a merchant, a reasonably large (i think) turnover is needed, in a sustained manner ( iirc a few months).

Nope. Signing up as a merchant is simply the matter of downloading the business version of GPay or Paytm and submitting minimal KYC documents.

> peer-peee merchant

Did not understand this part.

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Re:Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil by samarthr1 on Thursday July 27, 2023 @04:28PM (#36899687)
Sorry, was on mobile typing that, and turns out I was wrong. The UPI over credit card is only for Peer to Merchant transactions. To be a merchant (As against a peer merchant), you must have a month over month inflow of atleast 50,000 INR, for 3 months after being onboarded as a peer-merchant. [1]

I think you were talking about registering as a peer-merchant, not a "proper" merchant! MDR etc cannot be charged on peer-merchants[1], and are essentially peers, but with restricted purpose codes that they can accept money for.

[1] https://www.npci.org.in/PDF/npci/upi/circular/2019/Circular%...

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Re:Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil by unmole on Thursday July 27, 2023 @08:43PM (#36901971)
The circular is out of date. Having helped people register for for GPay and Paytm business accounts, I know for a fact that this is no longer true.
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Re:Pix surpasses credit and debit card transactions in Brazil by fmobus on Thursday July 27, 2023 @09:09AM (#36892865)
I don't think that kind of fraud would work in the Pix system. Pix transactions are debit, so Bob is out of the money immediately.

Of course, it is possible there might be some bank offering a pix-enabled credit card, but I don't see how they'd have any incentive, precisely because people could start doing that.

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