Have Attention Spans Been Declining?

Re:Have Attention Spans Been Declining? – Yes, 65% by jonathanstrange on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @04:42AM (#36859618)

I have to disagree. Your example illustrates that the quality demands of Harvard entry have declined and it's reasonable to assume that other universities have also become more open, as you claim. You're right about that. Universities are less elitist than they used to be.

Nevertheless, the overall demands in higher education have increased tremendously and the courses have also become more focused. In most disciplines, what formerly would have counted as a Ph.D. Thesis is nowadays at M.A. level. I've been in committees for hiring postdocs and Ph.D. students in the humanities, and it's insane what kind of demands are put on the students. I know some center of excellence in my discipline that (unofficially) requires one publication in a good international journal to be taken into consideration as a Ph.D. student. The majority of postdocs who apply for a one year grant nowadays have CVs that would almost certainly have made them assistant professors 30 years ago. There are also more courses and more subjects to learn because progress in science has accelerated very rapidly. For example, someone who studies CS nowadays will learn proofs in complexity theory that used to be cutting edge research 40 years ago.

Overall, I don't buy your negative claims. Over-achievers can quickly finish their undergraduate studies and will move on. At most universities it is possible to cram your curriculum and exams and pass "easy" undergraduate courses very quickly. Lack of elitism is an imaginary problem, probably often made up for political reasons. If you want to see real problems, look at the high student fees, accompanying debt, and the resulting desire to focus on practical job skills and overly fast-paced studies. These are detrimental to science, of course.

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Re:Have Attention Spans Been Declining? – Yes, 65% by somenameforme on Tuesday July 25, 2023 @12:30PM (#36864940)

Why would you call it elitist? From my perspective something like this is the ultimate 'democratization' of education. If you can pass the test - you're in, regardless of who you might otherwise be (or not be). For instance one individual who would have passed a similar exam was Richard Greener [1]. He was the first black man to graduate from Harvard. He did so in 1870, shortly after the Civil War, for some social context. He would, unsurprisingly, go on to lead an extremely distinguished life. Passing the test would obviously require a rigorous dedication and pursuit to academic knowledge, but what is that if not the most pure definition of what college ought be?

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Theodore_Greener

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Re:Have Attention Spans Been Declining? – Yes, 65% by jonathanstrange on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @06:20AM (#36875332)

I didn't talk about democratization (why the scare quotes?). I called it elitist because it's elitist. Harder entry exams are a way to only allow higher education for a much smaller percentage of the population, i.e., to an elite. You're obviously not one of them but there are people who think that the largest percentage possible should benefit from higher education. This also requires it to be affordable economically, of course.

I understand that this idea is not necessarily appealing to elitists and to people who only consider education in terms of the economic benefits it might provide.

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Re:Have Attention Spans Been Declining? – Yes, 65% by somenameforme on Wednesday July 26, 2023 @03:03PM (#36883142)

The scare quotes as I think that's an inappropriate, though common, use of the term.

Rather than argue I'm quite curious of your take on something. Imagine we have a hypothetical individual - Bob. Bob comes from a single parent and poor family. He's the first of his family to attend college. Bob, like most kids doesn't really like school at all. But he eeks by. And he graduates. Having no clue what to do with his life, he decides to whimsically apply for Whatever U, where he's accepted.

Once in he looks for the easiest major - and settles on psychology. Made even easier after noticing all the cute girls in Psych 301. Bob squeezes by mostly using pickaprof, ratemyprofessor, and so on sites to just find the easiest profs who pretty much hand out 4.0s for just showing up. So naturally he ends up a solid 3.0 student. Finally he graduates.

From my perspective, he's now in pretty much the same situation as he was 4 years ago, except now he has 6 figures of debt and a sheet of paper. How would you say Bob has benefited from higher education, in concrete ways? Would you expect his life to be better or worse relative to him just deciding to e.g. pick up an electrician apprenticeship out of high school?

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