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Re:Tim Berners-Lee’s new internet by jauntywundrkind on Sunday July 16, 2023 @09:09PM (#36753002)
In the Solid webiverse we could all self host tools that work across any range of sites. Anything anyone wanted to share with us? We could use whatever tools we want and do trust to use that data. We could use tools we trust to surf all the web, in the Solid world.

And given that we could self host these tools on static websites - since they dont rely on the host to hold data - we could all fork whatever tools we want into our own github pages accounts just fine.

I can not think of a more ideal & perfect outcome. Nothing you said in any way seems to hold any muster to this theory. Will it happen like this? Probably not; only if greatness takes root & spreads. But you seem hung up on assuming the world will absolutely remain as shitty as it is now. And you seem to be using that as your ammo to dismiss/ignore/put down. You are hard hard shorting this idea, and to me, that unwillingness to accept possibility, that rejecting based off of only what you are familiar with: that is a big bad.

(There's also an even wider range of cross-site systems that use the many trust barrier/sandbox options we have to allow us to weave webs between points of presence, in a trustable fashion. The fediverse has just some early crude steps at this, and it doesn't yet use any filetype handling nor protocol registration capabilities; the door is open.)

@ocdtrekkie: I'm rate limited again & cant reply but I don't see a single clash you've made with what I've just said. You've ignored every thesis every word I made & just doubled down on being wrong in exactly the same way. Please show the clash clearly. I've discussed at length how it allows tools to be happened in trusted places, to easily run yourself if nothing else, to statically host. There's even Web specs being proposed for isolated apps, which prevent a tool from dialing home anywhere. https://github.com/WICG/isolated-web-apps/blob/main/README.m... It's sad to see such wrong incorrect & negative persistent disbelief & pettiness used ot shade such possibility. Very sad.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee’s new internet by ocdtrekkie on Sunday July 16, 2023 @09:24PM (#36753072)
There are simply an army of far better solutions out there. Solid depends on a poor model, but receives the most attention because the leader of it is famous.

The problem is that if these tools are hosted by someone else, you cannot verify they do not also have your data. Once you grant them access to it, they can copy it, sell it and send it elsewhere, etc. Since, yes, we have decades of experience that companies do evil things with your data, we can easily recognize sharing your data with hosted applications is a recipe for abuse.

Meanwhile, there is almost no downside to requiring apps be runnable on a service/storage provider you trust. If I trust my storage provider, I can trust apps won't be permitted to do bad things on my platform. Whether that's a self-hosted service or a trustworthy SaaS, you are far better off demanding apps be put in containers you can host where you want rather than opening up your data to various destinations.

Re:Tim Berners-Lee’s new internet by cxr on Monday July 17, 2023 @08:35AM (#36757461)
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Re:Tim Berners-Lee’s new internet by jononor on Monday July 17, 2023 @11:28AM (#36759419)
Which better solutions are you referring to?
Re:Tim Berners-Lee’s new internet by ocdtrekkie on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:49PM (#36760581)
I'm personally fond of Sandstorm (which I contribute to), but any number of Docker-based self-hosting platforms either available to run yourself or sold as a SaaS (Cloudron, Umbrel, Tipi, a half dozen others in development, etc.) solve the problems that Solid solves, "owning your data", without the huge downside that Solid creates, "giving your data to outside servers willy-nilly".

The thing is Berners-Lee is a web standards guy, so he wants to solve the problem with a web standard. But a web standard is not necessarily the right solution here. And I think it's unfortunate some tens of millions of dollars of funding have gone to a solution that doesn't really solve the problem.