Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter...
by nerdponx on Friday July 14, 2023 @01:57PM
(#36727565)
This story is horrifying, but it seems more like catastrophic pilot error than a problem with the fly by wire system.
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter...
by Mawr on Friday July 14, 2023 @04:40PM
(#36729623)
Unless the plan is to remove pilots altogether, this line of thinking is just going to lead to more incidents.
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter...
by nerdponx on Saturday July 15, 2023 @12:47PM
(#36738652)
That's not my point. I don't see where the fly by wire system specifically caused the problem in this particular accident. Maybe there was insufficient cockpit indication that the aircraft switched to alternate law? Maybe the pilots were insufficiently trained on the scenario of icing leading to auto pilot disengagement? Maybe the pitot tube design was problematic and led to excessive ice buildup? Maybe the pilot was having a psychological problem, or was too fatigued? Etc
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter...
by Mawr on Saturday July 15, 2023 @04:45PM
(#36740781)
I see. Hypothetically, if there was no fly-by-wire system on that airplane, both pilots' input controls would be coupled to each other, eliminating the possibility of confusion as to what inputs are being made. In fact, all potential UX issues in regards to communicating the current input state to the pilots would be designed away: averaging the inputs, hiding the input of one pilot from the other, the possibility of dual input.
These aren't necessary characteristics of a fly-by-wire system, but its mere existence opens up the design space for them to exist.
Of course, I'm not arguing for removing the fly-by-wire system altogether ;)
However, whenever such fundamental paradigms are changed, great care must be taken to understand exactly how the new one differs from the old one.
In this case, the old direct input system afforded perfect communication of its state by default, but the new fly-by-wire system didn't. Care should have been taken to fully replicate the old behavior in the new system.
Re:Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter...
by Mawr on Friday July 14, 2023 @04:41PM
(#36729628)
Ah, the dual input nonsense, see my other comment on just that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36729484.
Of course as we've seen in the past that can introduce its own issues, for instance during the AF447 crash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447
>Confused, Bonin exclaimed, "I don't have control of the airplane any more now", and two seconds later, "I don't have control of the airplane at all!" Robert responded to this by saying, "controls to the left", and took over control of the aircraft. He pushed his side-stick forward to lower the nose and recover from the stall; however, Bonin was still pulling his side-stick back. The inputs cancelled each other out and triggered an audible "dual input" warning.