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Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by sheepscreek on Monday July 10, 2023 @10:59AM (#36667431)
Before anyone dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones, I’ll say that it’s truly admirable of them to always focus on the problem than getting excited over new tech.

Has that prevented them from advancing as a society? No. Has that prevented new innovations? Certainly not. This has likely prevented a lot of devices from being decommissioned and adding to our recycling woes and landfill. For contrast, a typical North American company refreshes all computers every 3 years. Imagine that.

I am sure that where it matters, companies are using newer tooling, but where the benefits are minuscule - there’s no pressure to change. Japanese people can take comfort in knowing their favourite hardware will be supported for a very long time.

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by sheepscreek on Monday July 10, 2023 @11:22AM (#36667749)
I think there’s a fundamental difference in how the two societies work which is at play here.

In North America, we are largely driven by monetary benefits. Everything is done to optimize profits, that eventually translates to a fatter paycheque for the CEO. That thinking trickles down. There’s only one hard rule, don’t break any laws. Everything else is game.

At the very bottom, you generally have people that have been marginalized. The society has written them off. They work many jobs to merely survive. I’ll save more on that for another day.

In comparison, Japanese society is driven by honour. Executives are less likely to take decisions solely for generating demand, through innovative marketing or trickery. People work their entire lives for the same company - that looks after them. The proverbial “salaryman”.

This kind of motivation creates more clarity on the end goal/purpose, which leads to more innovation. When you’re not chasing the golden goose and are driven by honour/respect, you’re more likely to be focused on the customer and what’s truly in their best interest. Some NA companies do this too - but it’s not a trait we particularly value above all else and is far far from being the norm.

The genuine concern for another being, even in business, is embedded in Japanese culture. Whether it’s being on time, or masking when you’re sick to protect others around you. Truly fascinating and admirable (though not without trad-offs).

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by vjust on Monday July 10, 2023 @11:57AM (#36668241)
Well put.
Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by stevezsa8 on Monday July 10, 2023 @12:21PM (#36668579)
This was interesting to read. Is it based on experience of living in Japan, or research?

I found the part about companies looking after the employee really interesting.

Having worked entirely in Europe, I've found most managers screwing over subordinates. I've encountered plenty of bully managers, never one who seemed to genuinely care.

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by evilos on Monday July 10, 2023 @04:39PM (#36672624)
Patrick (patio11) has some great blogs about working in Japan and the culture, if you're interested. I found this one insightful and very entertaining:

https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by turmacar on Monday July 10, 2023 @04:44PM (#36672686)
That last little "(though not without trad-offs)" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Not that there isn't some general truth to what they're saying, but it's definitely the rose-tinted glasses 'how it should work' view of Japanese corporate culture.

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by CatWChainsaw on Tuesday July 11, 2023 @08:34PM (#36689007)
The only hard rule is don't get caught breaking laws. If you do, pretend to apologize, fire a fall guy, and pay the smallest fine possible while not admitting guilt.
Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by JohnFen on Monday July 10, 2023 @12:37PM (#36668839)
> dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones

I agree, but those are interesting examples because they're not unique to Japanese culture. Fax machines common enough in the US for them to be continue to be useful, and I see more and more people using flip phones as time goes by.

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by patrec on Monday July 10, 2023 @01:01PM (#36669236)
> Before anyone dismisses the Japanese for using old tech - whether it’s fax machines or funny looking flip phones, I’ll say that it’s truly admirable of them to always focus on the problem than getting excited over new tech.

Excluding totalitarian communist monarchies, the Japanese are, human-capital adjusted, about the least productive people on earth. So they are not actually "focusing on the problem".

> Has that prevented them from advancing as a society? No.

The US pumped out a number of popular and populist movies and books in the 80ies and 90ies that betray a real fear of being overtaken by Japan. The notion seems completely ridiculous nowadays, and a glance of the GDP development of both countries over the last four decades will immediately make clear why.

> Has that prevented new innovations? Certainly not.

So what important innovations have come out of Japan in the last 40 years?

Japan has a lot of admirable qualities, but a pragmatic focus on productivity and innovation is not one of them.

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by wazzer on Monday July 10, 2023 @01:35PM (#36669830)
have you got any sources for those claims? I’d be interested in learning more!
Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by patrec on Monday July 10, 2023 @02:35PM (#36670963)
Productivity:

https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?QueryId=107229

Human Capital (let's take Pisa scores as a proxy):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_St...

GDP growth, JPN vs US

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/national-gdp-constant-usd...

(Worth pointing out that the US population has grown by ~1/3 whilst Japan has remained about constant, so per capita the effect is not as pronounced)

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by patrec on Monday July 10, 2023 @02:54PM (#36671226)
Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by genezeta on Monday July 10, 2023 @03:34PM (#36671772)
I'm not sure why the reference, but you probably mean Neuromancer.
Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by patrec on Monday July 10, 2023 @04:46PM (#36672723)
Indeed, fixed.
Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by gen220 on Monday July 10, 2023 @03:32PM (#36671750)
One point, I would be curious what the numbers would look like if you subtract immigrants from the US figures (since Japan has effectively no immigration).

Stepping back... having higher "productivity" or "GDP growth" does not make a cut-and-dry "winner". Everything is a trade-off.

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by patrec on Monday July 10, 2023 @07:48PM (#36674652)
> Stepping back... having higher "productivity" or "GDP growth" does not make a cut-and-dry "winner". Everything is a trade-off.

OK, so what's the upside to working almost twice as long to achieve the same output as an American? Doesn't seem to be happiness, because Japan seems to score a good deal lower there as well, and that's after GDP adjustment:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-vs-happiness?country=...

As I said, I'm aware of plenty of metrics that Japan does significantly better than the US on, but I'd like to see one that's linked to low productivity and low growth.

Re:Japanese textile factory still uses tape cassette and pun... by sheepscreek on Monday July 10, 2023 @06:58PM (#36674154)
Video games (Sony, Nintendo). Manga, Anime!