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Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by bakuninsbart on Thursday July 06, 2023 @02:17AM (#36612008)
I think this is the key issue here. There are a lot of VC funded start ups that have a good product and a solid market fit, but they were never supposed to become 500+ employee companies.

If you have a product that works and makes a good profit, and you can maintain it with 10 people and extend it with 5 more, sometimes that just is the company.

In this context I think it is important to note that Ycombinator was founded in 2005. For the majority of its existence, and the general hype of tech startups, money was incredibly cheap. Now that the gears are switching, a lot of the advice given to startup founders does not work as well anymore.

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by Kaibeezy on Thursday July 06, 2023 @05:03AM (#36613191)
If you have a product that works and makes a good profit, and you can maintain it with 10 people and extend it with 5 more, sometimes that just is the company.

Amen. I call this business model “tiny unicorn”. Been riding mine 25 years now.

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by nicbou on Sunday July 09, 2023 @06:57AM (#36653426)
What would be the caveats of that approach?
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by Kaibeezy on Sunday July 09, 2023 @02:21PM (#36657312)
You’ve go to know your unicorn. If it’s tiny, it’s tiny, and no use dreaming of a majestic stallion rampant when its natural environment is scuttling under the clover.
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by nicbou on Sunday July 09, 2023 @07:33PM (#36660194)
Great answer! I shall ride this pony until the wheels fall off then.
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by seanhunter on Thursday July 06, 2023 @08:44AM (#36614920)
This is super-important. Sometimes the grass is greener on this side of the fence.

VCs want to get you to grow rapidly because the only way to move the needle on their returns is to blow the roof off. However as a founder, this is proof you can have a great business and a great quality of life by keeping costs relatively low, the team relatively small, just cranking out code and having fun.

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by ghaff on Thursday July 06, 2023 @09:13AM (#36615224)
As a founder you probably don’t get wealthy either and a lot aren’t really satisfied with a $150k/yr total comp/benefits for their successful lifestyle business.
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by crystalgurl on Thursday July 06, 2023 @10:06AM (#36615998)
It was pretty nice to exit my startup for hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, I don’t think I’d like to settle for $150k. YMMV, but I suppose a lot of folks are taking a calculated risk and swinging for the fences.

More power to em, if you prefer software be a certain way write it yourself.

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by ndiddy on Thursday July 06, 2023 @10:41AM (#36616654)
Agreed, sure I fucked over my customers after my startup was bought by Google, but I didn't really care because I was able to afford three yachts. I didn't even write the shutdown message myself, I paid some dude on Fiverr to do it. Maybe 150k is fine if you're willing to settle for an above-ground pool in some shithole state in the Midwest, but if you want to spend your time where the true work happens, and collaborate with other innovators and founders in the only place that matters (bay area) you have to set your sights a bit higher.
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by crystalgurl on Thursday July 06, 2023 @07:57PM (#36625055)
Humans have agency. If you enter into an agreement for software at a particular price (especially $0) that’s on you.
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by coldpie on Thursday July 06, 2023 @10:08AM (#36616024)
Imagine not being "satisfied" with a ~85th percentile wage[1]. Anyone who earns more than $150k/yr should be forced to spend 6 months every 5 years working a minimum wage retail job. They can keep earning their normal salary in escrow until they're done with their "get some damn perspective" temp job.

[1] https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percen...

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by ghaff on Thursday July 06, 2023 @10:42AM (#36616683)
I assume someone running a very successful lifestyle business of this sort 1) Probably had a pretty good chance of making nothing at all or even lost money and 2) Could make more money with benefits etc. if they just took a job at a big company.

So, yes, they’ve done pretty well but they took a risk and still probably didn’t come close to maximizing comp even they had a rather good outcome.

And I just threw out the $150k number because it’s a very good outcome. Could just as easily be something a lot lower including negative.

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by seti0Cha on Thursday July 06, 2023 @11:28AM (#36617520)
While I do agree it would be good for those who haven't experienced poverty to get a taste of it, it's not realistic to expect people to feel satisfied simply because they are more fortunate than some other group. Success is always perceived relative to your surroundings and the possibilities available.
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by sib on Thursday July 06, 2023 @10:38AM (#36616593)
I think most of the founders on HN are far above the 85th percentile in intelligence (let's not get into the philosophical arguments about it), so why would they be satisfied with that?
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by dragonwriter on Thursday July 06, 2023 @12:10PM (#36618197)
Because, being over 85th percentile in intelligence, they would be more likely than average to realize that the marginal impact of income on experienced utility declines sharply the higher you go on the income distribution. (Especially if they’ve experienced life at a variety of income levels, including some near the 85th percentile.)
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by sib on Thursday July 06, 2023 @01:30PM (#36619641)
Marginal impact decreases, but the absolute impact is still positive... And the marginal impact is still quite high at the 85th percentile of income because the income distribution is very skewed (the absolute dollar difference from 85th percentile to 99th percentile, where most HN / YC founders probably are on the intelligence scale, is probably much greater than the absolute dollar difference from 15th to 29th percentile, as an example).
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by dragonwriter on Thursday July 06, 2023 @12:08PM (#36618158)
> Imagine not being "satisfied" with a ~85th percentile wage.

In aggregates: Household income > individual income > wage/salary; you've confused the first with the last.

$150K is beyond 90th percentile individual income. [0] I can’t find wage/salary percentiles separately, but its probably even further beyond 90th percentile there.

https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-individual-income-perce...

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by mesoman on Thursday July 06, 2023 @01:59PM (#36620132)
As a co-founder, I'd say you can get wealthy or at least comfortable.

But, we started with two people. At some point we needed funding. That put us on a track of angel investors, VC's, and a cycle acquisition, buyback, funding, acquisition, buyback, etc.

As the techie guy, I found that tiring and distracting. When we changed from software as a product to SAAS, it got a lot less fun. When we grew to 2000 employees (mostly non-tech), the company was a pain.

So after 20 years (to the day), we sold it and moved on.

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by nicbou on Sunday July 09, 2023 @06:54AM (#36653414)
It's really nice to hear something like that from someone who experienced it.

If you were back to two people with a promising idea, how would you do it this time?

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by OkayPhysicist on Thursday July 06, 2023 @08:59PM (#36625595)
You can make A LOT more money than that as the owner of a small company. If a VC firm wants to invest, it's because the company has the potential to make an absolute killing.
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by coldpie on Thursday July 06, 2023 @09:18AM (#36615280)
> If you have a product that works and makes a good profit, and you can maintain it with 10 people and extend it with 5 more, sometimes that just is the company.

C'mon now. With that attitude, how are you ever going to get imploded on top of the Titanic, or buy a social media company so you can smash it against the wall like a toddler with a toy truck? You want to live a comfortable, happy life, with happy employees and customers? No way! This is capitalism, baby! Fuck your customers and your employees, it's your right to throw them into a vat of acid so you can blow millions of their dollars to spend 30 minutes in the stratosphere wearing a cowboy hat! If you don't do it, someone else will!

Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by clarkb286 on Thursday July 06, 2023 @10:03AM (#36615929)
Yeah! I feel like I'm reading a script of an episode of the TV show, "Silicon Valley"! (ANY episode, lol!) * Pied Piper FOREVER! *
Re:Tell HN: Nearly all of Evernote’s remaining staff has bee... by charlie0 on Thursday July 06, 2023 @02:19PM (#36620457)
I'd like to agree with you, but the issue then becomes this smaller company is competing with a much larger company, which then has a larger marketing budget. The smaller company's offering becomes just another set of features the larger company offers.

It's not fair because the larger company continues to get VC funding which allows it to subsidize features or even give them away for free. Remember, all these companies are effectively racing to become monopolies and part of that process is "price dumping" to kill of smaller competitors. Again, this sucks, but those are the incentives VCs provides and companies have to oblige or get swallowed up by bigger fish.