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Re:Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset pro... by flohofwoe on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @09:04AM (#36586123)
The macOS 'application centric' window system model is an excellent example IMHO.

Alt-Tab (erm... Cmd-Tab) switching through applications instead of windows (and then having a separate hotkey to tab through windows, but only within one application), and that mess combined with the fact that there can be UI applications that just have a menu bar but no open windows is just incredibly bizarre (and even though I'm now a primary Mac user for more than a decade it still feels incredibly clunky - at least there's this gesture-controlled 'exploded-desktop-view' as a workaround).

...and when it comes to the new stuff:

- hiding the scroll bar, what a completely non-sensical decision from a UX point of view, I now need to wiggle the touchpad to see where I am in a document, and how much of the document I'm currently viewing (yes I know that this can be disabled, and that's the first thing I do on a new Mac, along with inverting the scrolling direction)

- arranging buttons vertically in popup dialogs on macOS devices with landscape display orientation (arguably it makes sense on an iPhone with portrait display orientation, but in either case the vertical arrangement makes it a lot more likely to accidentally hit the wrong button)

- the new settings panel is just a massive step back from the old one (which wasn't all that great either)

- don't even get me started on iOS, if you don't know the 'magic gestures' nothing makes sense (same shit on Android though)

Re:Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset pro... by catiopatio on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:03PM (#36590371)
I love the application centric model; I find the “window” centric model to be incredibly messy.

I’m assuming you came to macOS from some years using Windows?

Re:Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset pro... by flohofwoe on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @02:38AM (#36596310)
Basically Amiga => Windows (since ca 1998) => Mac + Windows + Linux (since ca 2010)

...but I was also exposed to 90's Macs somewhat. I remember that my switch from the Amiga UI to Windows was fairly smooth, but I never got quite used to the Mac UI (not that it matters all that much though because I mostly switched back to the command line anyway, that's the only way to keep sane when switching regularly between Mac, Windows and Linux).

Re:Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset pro... by jasomill on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @10:44AM (#36601142)
Me too. If I had to keep a window open in — say — Photoshop open all the time just so I didn't have to wait ten seconds every time I open something with it, it'd drive me crazy.

Visual Studio on Windows does drive me crazy for exactly this reason, especially as each instance can only have one top-level document (solution) open at a time.

Re:Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset pro... by phatskat on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @10:10PM (#36594795)
I grew up on Windows and Linux, but a mostly daily Mac user for more than a decade now.

I think the app vs window centric model really comes down to user preference - I think I could get used to window again but I had Chrome, Audacity, and the windows explorer open last night with maybe five windows and was alt-tabbing to all the wrong places. My brain just makes sense of “get to application, then find the window” better than a list of windows I have to sift through across disparate apps.

I agree with the scroll bars and settings getting worse. Buttons are either way, but - like app vs window switching - could be remedied with a setting to change the behavior.

Re:Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset pro... by kzrdude on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @06:22AM (#36598306)
By now Linux (Gnome, sure) has copied apple and hidden the scrollbar. But Apple does it better, so they still lead in UI.
Re:Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset pro... by flohofwoe on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @06:59AM (#36598572)
That's another but even bigger problem: Apple is so highly regarded by designers (which was even justified in the past when Apple did actual UX research), that they just blindly copy even the bad stuff.