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Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by throwawaymaths on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:25PM (#36580126)
The problem with operator overloading is not really numericity, IMO. The problems are:

- hidden control flow (function calls should look like function calls, an operation should never mask a function call)

- global weirdness. If a library changes the language, how does that affect some other code you're pulling in? Where do you effect those changes?

Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by spc476 on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:29PM (#36580167)
Some CPUs don't have a MUL or (like some 32-bit RISC architectures) DIV instruction, and on these, the C compile has to fall back to a function call.
Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by throwawaymaths on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:32PM (#36580199)
You sure the compiler doesn't inline it? That an operator might take more than one opcode I think is uncontroversial
Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by kps on Monday July 03, 2023 @07:58PM (#36580445)
Multiplication takes more than a handful of instructions if the hardware doesn't do it.

https://godbolt.org/z/ccYPaz1Pj

For this example (AVR), this is the int multiply function __mulhi3:

    00: 00 24  eor  r0, r0
    02: 55 27  eor  r21, r21
    04: 00 c0  rjmp .+0
    06: 08 0e  add  r0, r24
    08: 59 1f  adc  r21, r25
    0a: 88 0f  add  r24, r24
    0c: 99 1f  adc  r25, r25
    0e: 00 97  sbiw r24, 0x00
    10: 01 f0  breq .+0
    12: 76 95  lsr  r23
    14: 67 95  ror  r22
    16: 00 f0  brcs .+0
    18: 71 05  cpc  r23, r1
    1a: 01 f4  brne .+0
    1c: 80 2d  mov  r24, r0
    1e: 95 2f  mov  r25, r21
    20: 08 95  ret
Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by throwawaymaths on Monday July 03, 2023 @10:10PM (#36581339)
I mean, pedantically speaking the normal zig operators do control flow in their operators, in checked mode they panic on overflow, etc (you're not supposed to recover from them but I suppose it's possible). There's probably (internal) control flow in the saturating operators, etc.
Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by pornel on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:07PM (#36580866)
Not always. I’ve seen division and atomic operations stay as function calls to libgcc. However, semantics of these are well-defined either way, unlike user-defined operators, so existence of a hidden call is at most an inconvenience when linking code from different compilers.
Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by saagarjha on Monday July 03, 2023 @09:21PM (#36580974)
Your atomic increment may turn into a function call if it’s targeting multiple microarchitectures.
Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by avgcorrection on Monday July 03, 2023 @10:13PM (#36581359)
> hidden control flow (function calls should look like function calls, an operation should never mask a function call)

An operator is either a function call or some simple built-in operation.

Thus not hidden.

That syntactic elements that consist of symbols rather than alnum and that are used as prefix or infix operators are necessarily “not a function call” is just a rule that can be changed.

Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by Mawr on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @05:21PM (#36592644)
> An operator is either a function call or some simple built-in operation.

In theory, yes. In practice, an operator is a simple built-in operation 99.999% of the time, which lures programmers into thinking that's how it always is.

It's like a self-driving car that's safe 99.999% of the time but still requires you to continuously pay attention to take over at a second's notice.

Humans just don't work like that.

Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by avgcorrection on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @06:46PM (#36593476)
> In theory, yes. In practice, an operator is a simple built-in operation 99.999% of the time, which lures programmers into thinking that's how it always is.

Noo it isn’t. Many languages use something like `+` for string concatenation. Maybe list concatenation.

Re:Problems of C, and how Zig addresses them by naasking on Monday July 03, 2023 @11:33PM (#36581872)
> - hidden control flow (function calls should look like function calls, an operation should never mask a function call)

You can restrict operator definitions to expressions containing other operators. Operators are now guaranteed to expose only as much control flow as the underlying operators would already expose.

> - global weirdness. If a library changes the language, how does that affect some other code you're pulling in? Where do you effect those changes?

I'm not sure what you mean. Behaviour depends on language semantics. You don't specify why operators are uniquely weird on this compared to literally any other function call when language semantics or library behaviour changes.